Table top lathe recommendations??

[trails4u]

At Hoffacker they'd leave the surface grinder tables cycling back and forth all night, just to keep the machine at a stable temperature for the morning.

If you want to get deep into it, try to find a copy of Wayne R. Moore's book The Foundations of Mechanical Accuracy. Not a lot were printed, and they are dear today, but there isn't much about machine tool accuracy measurement and scraping that he didn't cover.

Would you believe you can find it and download it as a .pdf for free??

https://ia800104.us.archive.org/20/i...l_Accuracy.pdf

[uscra112]

Well, that's good. One seller on Alibris want $999 for a copy. I bought one myself about 1980. It's buried in a box somewhere, four moves later.

[M-Tecs]

At Hoffacker they'd leave the surface grinder tables cycling back and forth all night, just to keep the machine at a stable temperature for the morning.

If you want to get deep into it, try to find a copy of Wayne R. Moore's book The Foundations of Mechanical Accuracy. Not a lot were printed, and they are dear today, but there isn't much about machine tool accuracy measurement and scraping that he didn't cover.

free here https://archive.org/details/Foundati...uracy/mode/2up

[uscra112]

Right. I just downloaded it in case mine has truly disappeared.

Moore Special Tool was such a national resource that when there was a possibility that it might be sold to a foreign buyer some years ago, the federal government nixed the deal. Moore was the only company that could make machine tools that were key to the nuclear weapons program. I've got two personal stories about Moore, but I'll save 'em until one of you buys me a beer.

[ulav8r]

I would buy you one, but then I would have to toss it since I don't drink, and I can't toss it that far.

[fg-machine]

The $64 question: Who knows how to make a perfectly flat surface plate using nothing but a scraper, red lead, and Prussiann blue?

You can't make a " single " perfectly flat all by itself .
You have to have a reference i.e. two surfaces , neither has to be perfectly flat when you start .
Precision flat surfaces are achieved by lapping not scraping .

There's a company down the road a ways from me , all they do is surface plates , cast iron and granite. Each and everyone is lapped to grade .

[ulav8r]

Have only used one of the cheap 8x18s for about 10 minutes but have looked at 7x10's at HF and Cummins. The 7x10's looked to be more substantial then the 8x18. For your stated use I think a 7x14 would be ideal. The Micromark may be a little better out of the box but is it worth nearly twice the price of that Vevor mentioned above? All of those mini lathes are made in China and will need the buyer to clean, adjust AND modify. Some tooling will have to be made to get the most usefulness from the machine. The short bed will make you need to be careful in selecting tailstock tooling (ie, don't buy the largest drill chuck that will fit, but the shortest that is just big enough). Depending on your budget you may have to make some tooling/accessories but that can be a good learning experience. If you buy all tooling ready made it will easily exceed the cost of the lathe. A good 115 pc set of drills will be $160 to $300+, and there are lots of other accessories needed. HSS and cobalt bits are desirable for brass as they can be easily ground to any shape needed. Would not want to grind a carbide insert to cut an extractor groove or rim thinning tool.

My first experience with a lathe? Used a war surplus Leblonde in the college physics lab, probably about a 12x36 after studying a Henry Ford Trade School text book to learn tool grinding and machine operation. Used it to remove the steps from a 7mm Mauser that a neighbor owned. That was in 1972. The sweetest lathe I have used was a Mazak 16" swing manual and the largest was a 18-20'swing CNC that would go to about 30" but it had chucks at both ends so it could machine one part on the headstock, then transfer that part to the tailstock for machining the other end and it had a toolchanger so it could do multiple turning and milling with live tooling. Used manual machines up to about 18"x12 feet. My current lathes are a 1956 SB Heavy 10, a Rockwell 10x36 and a Dalton TL which is a patternmakers lathe of about 6x20 size from the 1920's. Need a bench top for the same use as you and 14-16 inch SB with 6 feet between centers for cannon barrels but don't expect that to happen. Would also like to put an electronic leadscrew on the Dalton.

[GregLaROCHE]

I started with an inexpensive mini lathe. At first it was ok, but soon I wanted higher precision. I now have a full size lathe and rarely use the mini lathe. I’ve since come to learn that some top quality bench top lathes are available from Precision Mathews. https://www.precisionmatthews.com/
I think they are import machines, however, they come from Taiwan, where quality standards are higher than mainland China. Unfortunately, they are expensive.

[marvelshooter]

I am going to go against most of the advice here and suggest an old South Bend 9A. They are out there and turn up occasionally for sale. Make sure it is a 9A not B or C. The A model has the quick change gear box and feed clutch on the apron. The B and C models use change gears. The more tooling included the better and collets if possible.

[uscra112]

Taiwan is no guarantee. In the late '70s I worked for a company that imported a copy of a Mori Seiki engine lathe made by (ready) the King Kong Iron Works on Taiwan, and it was crap. Flame hardened cast iron ways that were barely hardened at all is the key "feature" I remember best. It was cheap, and we sold about one a month while I was there. One really GOOD Asian machine we had was Korean - a Doosan #1-1/2 horizontal knee mill that was tops in every way. But there was no market for them. I never sold a single one. We also had a top quality bench lathe, about 10x30 like the ones we are talking about, that came from the mainland. My DC (i.e. fed-gov) rep sold one to the White House. (I thought he was pulling my leg, so I didn't enter the order for three weeks, until he called me asking where it was.) If I had had any sense back then I would have just taken one when the company went bankrupt owing me $30,000 in commissions.

[MrWolf]

Threading and chambering are about all I do on it anymore, and as I age out I do very little of that. I did mount the collet setup last month to make a small part that had to come out of 1" bar. But after I had it roughed out, and the 1/2" hole drilled through, I cut it off and brought it upstairs to finish on the Unimat. My back is so bad now that I can't stand in front of a machine tool for long.

That is why I haven't pursued getting a lathe. My back has gotten ridiculous. Pretty bad when you can't sit long enough to reload without being in pain which leads to mistakes. Fighting with insurance companies over MRI's is a lot of fun also.
Some very good advice with real life expectations. Thanks folks. I keep saying someday.
Ron

[Alstep]

I am going to go against most of the advice here and suggest an old South Bend 9A. They are out there and turn up occasionally for sale. Make sure it is a 9A not B or C. The A model has the quick change gear box and feed clutch on the apron. The B and C models use change gears. The more tooling included the better and collets if possible.

I'll second that thought. Especially the quick change gearbox. That's a must.
I've picked up a couple of SB lathes years ago, they are a nice versatile machine.
Also consider Clausing, Sheldon, Logan and Rockwell, they made nice machines as well.
Whatever you get, the tooling that comes with it is most important. Like chucks, collets, thread dial, tool holders, etc. Any machine is worthless without those basics.
Condition is a primary factor. Avoid anything that's abused and beat up.

[fixit]

From my viewpoint, many of bench lathes found are handicapped by limited headstock clearances! To my knowledge, all of the 7" lathes are limited to about .800" clearance, which ain't much! When I bought mine, I shopped the 8 x 16 lathes, many of which have a 1.5" headstock passage...... it's still chinesium, but it's definitely more to work with!

[uscra112]

The O.P. stated, and I quote:

So...I've been chewing on this for a while now, and I think it's time to get into a table top lathe. Uses, for now, would primarily be for brass forming (thinning rims, bases, etc.) but at the same time, I'd like to have something substantial and accurate enough that I could take on small machining projects either for my own use or as a service to others in the future. I don't see barrel work in my future, so don't need a super long bed....I was thinking a 7x12 or 7x14 size machine.

So spindle hole size is irrelevant to him.

I'll reiterate that I bought a tabletop lathe specifically so I wouldn't have to use my SB 10 Heavy for piddling little jobs like brass rework.

[country gent]

You can scrap a flat surface with out a master but you need 3 plates its a long drawn out process of scraping one plate to the others then switching the order and rotating the plates. A lot of the cast iron plates were ground then scrapped by hand to flatten them. I believe the goal was 28-30 points per inch. At the one shop when the big granite plate was resurfaced they then brought in the inspection plates from the floor and they were surfaced to the newly surfaced plate.

South bend, Atlas, logan, sheldon harrison and some others all made lathes in the smaller sizes. If you can find a used one they are good machines but are heavier than the newer minis. A used machine may have tooling with it and thats a big plus. Tool holders chucks collets centers lathe dogs cutters all add to the cost. The machine is cheap compared to the tooling.

[uscra112]

Right answer. That's how we bootstrapped our way into industrial precision 250 years ago.

[TCLouis]

What is the greatest diemeter that you plan to work with.

IF it has to go through the headstock then that marks your smallest lathe.
Through hole is a limiting but most important factor.

My SB thrughhole is "almost big enough" the SB heavy 10 is what I really should have bought.

Much reasearch before buying is IMPORTANT

[uscra112]

See Post #54. Which refers back to post #1.

[country gent]

The biggest draw back to the mini lathes is the bolt on chuck mount and lack of taper in the spindle. even a #1 morse taper would allow easy mounting and repeatability of fixtures.

I have used a 5c collet and collet stop with wilson case holder to re work cases . The set up is quick easy and repeatable.

Setting up a mini lathe strictly for case work I would make a collet holder for ER collets. turn od and mount then bore right to the spindle in place. then use the wilson case holders. Once mounted and bored on the spindle it would be very accurate and repeatable. While it could be made on the mini lathe it would take some time a bigger machine to rough it in and thread it would save a lot of time over the light passes the small machine will require.

[uscra112]

Bolt? Are we now talking about a Sherline or some such?