I learned by doing today

[Texas by God]

On another recent thread about cast loads for the .270, I referred the OP to the Lyman Cast Bulletin handbook. Because he wasn’t interested in light loads.
So, the other day I picked a load in the middle of the road for the C309170F Lee over 36 grs of 3031- for an estimated 2000-2100 fps(I know…)
Reading Mr. Gibsons advice proved out for me and I learned that;
The 30-06 case capacity works against using 3031 for cast. Quick hangfires and poor accuracy at 40 yards(7shots)and 100 yards(2-3shot groups)both.
I’m not a great bench shooter, but I can tell when a load is crappy.
So I’m going back to 4227 and 4198 for my cast 30-06 purposes.
I’ll save the 3031 for the 30-30 size cases.
The pic with the rifle shows a 100 yard group with the C309200R over 4227 powder. I’ve shot several sub one inch 40 yard groups with that load.




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[cwtebay]

Interesting data!
Tell me that target isn't cardboard with a snuice can being spray painted over!

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[Texas by God]

Interesting data!
Tell me that target isn't cardboard with a snuice can being spray painted over!

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Yep, with the delivery trucks bringing more boxes each day till the 25th….
After that it’s back to the foot tall stack of printer paper that wifey gave me year before last!


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[waco]

Have you tried any powders slower than 3031? Something that might give a better case fill?

[405grain]

IMR-3031 is the slowest powder that I use for cast loads, and even then I don't use it in anything larger than 7x57 Mauser. In the 7x57 I use a filler to simulate good case fill. Those loads, with the rcbs 7-168-sp, are very good target loads, but target shooting is specifically what I was intending for that bullet/powder combination. For almost all other cast rifle loads I use powders with burning rates between IMR-4198 to SW Buffalo Rifle (same as 5744). Quicker burning powders give me a better balance between velocity, accuracy, and ease of reloading. (Ease of reloading = no fillers, no magnum primers, no worries about position or temperature sensitivity, no pressure worries, basically load the cartridge for moderate velocities and good to go.)

Texas by God; Sinister of you to distract us with those targets while only allowing a tiny glimpse of that nice looking rifle.

[Winger Ed.]

Texas by God; Sinister of you to distract us with those targets while only allowing a tiny glimpse of that nice looking rifle.

Some of these old guys are kind of mean that way.

It's like teasing people is sort of a hobby.

[cwtebay]

Some of these old guys are kind of mean that way.

It's like teasing people is sort of a hobby.

Go easy on him fellas! It's like a pretty girl in a sexy dress - leaving enough to the imagination to keep you interested!

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[Texas by God]

Well, OK. Y’all simmer down
I once had a small Tikka T3 Hunter collection.
A first year production T3 22-250(shortened for pickup duty),
The 25-06 in the center, and the 8x57 on the right.
I gave the 25-06 to my oldest daughter, the 8x57 sold for profit at a gun show, and I converted the 22-250 to 30-06 with a T3X barrel. I also scored another synthetic stock which I painted.
I’ve only owned a handful of 30-06 rifles in my time- but this one shoots the best of them.
I’m not wanting to exceed 2000 fps in this or my other guns; I’ll be happy using faster powders to get there. I’ll save the slower powders for jacketed bullets.


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[charlie b]

I've had the same kind of trouble recently with my .308 and IMR4198, especially with small primers.

[WRideout]

My Interarms Mark X in 30-06 would not shoot cast worth a hoot with almost every powder I had; 4064, 3031, H335, H380. Then I acquired a can of H4895 from a friend. Groups magically improved! Now I just need to find another can of it somewhere.

Wayne

[Colt1991]

That was my thread and just as I was going to try 3031 you post this. I still might give it a go with a heavier bullet to see how things go but I think I already know.

[TurnipEaterDown]

Guess I am a little confused what medium stick powders have going wrong with them for use with cast bullets.

Besides the two attached pictures of groups w/ 30-06 & 416 Taylor, I used 43 gr IMR4007SSC (discontinued) behind 370 gr cast RCBS gascheck in my 41-40 Steyr (30-40 Krag opened straight, 416 bore) to shoot a 50 yd group of 0.9375" (4 shots), 0.5" (best 3 of the 4). Optic: 8 minute red dot. Trigger: as delivered Steyr M95.

[charlie b]

Depends on what load density you can get with them. When you get below 60% then you can have inconsistent ignition due to powder moving away from the primer. Faster powders are less sensitive to this.

[cwtebay]

Has anyone experiencing these issues tried to load / cycle a round into the chamber when the barrel is vertical? I have seen fellas do this in a variety of scenarios to amass the powder towards the primer end.

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[Bazoo]

Thanks for sharing your experiences TbG, a very interesting discussion.

[35 Rem]

This is why I only use cast in rifle cartridges where full power loads are about 2,200 to 2,400 ft/sec. I tried reduced loads with cast in the 8x57 with terrible results and problems and finally decided that there was no point in turning such cartridge into a 32 Special when I already have a 32 Special.

[Thumbcocker]

4895 has done pretty well for me in '06. Usually somewhere in the 30s.

[TurnipEaterDown]

Depends on what load density you can get with them. When you get below 60% then you can have inconsistent ignition due to powder moving away from the primer. Faster powders are less sensitive to this.

I completely agree w/ that Charlie b.
Just that the thread started with "...estimated 2000-2100 fps…The 30-06 case capacity works against using 3031 for cast. " Which I am really not convinced of.

I am Completely convinced that the groups shown do not represent good accuracy for a 30-06 in a good rifle, nor do I think that the OP should be happy with the groups shown. Just that I think that 3031 is not necessarily to blame.
Maybe the particular load was just bad for that bullet & rifle, and other charges w/ 3031 w/ the same bullet and gun would be fine. Don't know.

I have conserved my little bit of 3031 for other uses, but might well give 3031 a try w/ a few cast 30s I have for one of the 06s I have. Maybe I find the same, maybe I don't. Won't guess.

I do find it odd though that TbG reports hangfires w/ a load that he believes should be around 2000 fps. That seems an odd association.

I have by no means tried everything, but where I saw hangfires in this case capacity range (8x57, at 1600 -- 8x57 not too far from 06) was when my friend had used some 10 yr old S&B primers that I bought as a case in the O Bummer years. They worked fine for me, but 10 years later in a reduced load they gave lots of hangfires, unless the rifle was pointed up first to get the powder (25 gr Surplus Russian flake FSP749) in the rear of the case. Putting a WLP primer in the same load worked absolutely fine for me -- powder in nose, powder at base, powder however (cartridge pulled from a bag, jammed in the magazine and shot w/o regard to handling for powder position). And the WLP doesn't seem to be an aggressive primer in pressure tests that I ran.
So, yeah, low charges of a medium powder does absolutely lend itself to poor ignition and inconsistent burn, at least in some situations.