can't find load data for 2 commercial cast coated 30-30 bullets

[linko]

Hi, I have 2 cast bullets and can't not find load data. I am shooting these in my 336 marlin lever gun

I checked all my loading manuals for these two bullets

Chey-Cast 165 gr coated 30-30 (.309)
SNS 158 gr coated (.309)

Can anyone point me in the right direction to find load data?

[RickinTN]

Use starting data for a 170 grain cast and work up (Or down, as the case may be) to your satisfaction or until your rifle says to stop.
Good Luck,
Rick

[linko]

Thanks RickinTN, I have been doing just that.

Hodgdon loads for a 160gr cast LFN are 17.5 - 21.0

For the SNS 158 gr I am starting with 20.2 - 20.6
For the heavier Chey-Cast 165 gr should I start with a load above or below 20.2 - 20.6?

[shaggybull]

I have and old Lyman book comb bound falling apart has 165gc loads. 2400 20grs, 4759 14grs, 4198 26-28grs, 4895 30grs, 3031 30grs.

[linko]

I have and old Lyman book comb bound falling apart has 165gc loads. 2400 20grs, 4759 14grs, 4198 26-28grs, 4895 30grs, 3031 30grs.

appreciate. Is the H4895 30 gr a starting load or just the recommended load?

thanks

[farmbif]

a wise investment might be made in the latest Lyman reloading book. you want to be concerned with bullet weight and seating depth not the brand of bullets.
also online at the imr or Hodgdon web site is the reloading data center and there is lots of cast bullet loads now that the western powders/ ramshot and accurate powders load data has been incorporated under the hodgdon umbrella.

[linko]

a wise investment might be made in the latest Lyman reloading book. you want to be concerned with bullet weight and seating depth not the brand of bullets.
also online at the imr or Hodgdon web site is the reloading data center and there is lots of cast bullet loads now that the western powders/ ramshot and accurate powders load data has been incorporated under the hodgdon umbrella.

thanks,

yes I have several Lyman manuals (cast as well) 158 gr and 165 are not listed there or on Hodgdon site.

ordered a real old lyman manual (1970) will look there.

appreciate your response

[Bazoo]

I would use Lee 309-150-F or RCBS 30-150-FN data for the SNS bullet, and Lyman 31141 for the cheycast bullet. Of course you could use the 31141 data for both since it's more commonly available.

[HamGunner]

Could easily be that you will find no exact data match for your bullets, especially since they are coated. But, certainly with cast, that is easily remedied by comparing your bullet to another similar bullet that has data. That should get you into the ball park at least. In order to get on base and work your way to home plate, just start lower and work up as any load should be done and you will find your load.

As far as measuring seating depth or OAL, what is in load data is just the seating depth that they used to work up the data. You can certainly fudge a little bit either way, according to what your chamber likes, and starting low, work up a load. Sometimes one has to work for it a bit to work up a load. The work is not always done for us.

[shaggybull]

Was only load listed with 4895

[P Flados]

There have been some reasonable responses, but the initial request could have been better.

Traditional cast bullet load data was generally assembled and loads were likely to have have been kept to lower velocities than what now seems reasonable with coated boolits. The other item of note is that the OP did not specify anything with respect to usage or powder preferences.

[linko]

I plan to use H4895 for an accurate target load.

Am currently loading in the 20 - 21 gr range

[P Flados]

The SNS does not look too much different than a bevel base version of the Lee 150. I took the Lee 150 and increased the weight to 158 gr. The Lee will seat 0.415" deep using the crimp groove, but I increased the seating depth to 0.434". If you need to seat deeper, Quickload says to back off 0.1 gr for every 0.009" deeper.

Cartridge          : .30-30 Win. (SAAMI)
Bullet             : .309, 150, LEE C309-150-F (adjusted to 158)
Seating depth      : .434 inch
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.470 inch = 62.74 mm
Barrel Length      : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm
Powder             : Hodgdon H4895


CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms
-35.7   54    18.00   1194     500    8071   2578     56.6    2.509
-32.1   58    19.00   1261     558    9073   2846     59.5    2.380
-28.6   61    20.00   1329     619   10180   3122     62.4    2.259
-25.0   64    21.00   1398     685   11405   3405     65.3    2.145
-21.4   67    22.00   1467     755   12758   3692     68.1    2.034
-17.9   70    23.00   1538     830   14251   3983     70.9    1.928
-14.3   73    24.00   1609     908   15901   4275     73.5    1.829
-10.7   76    25.00   1681     991   17721   4567     76.1    1.737
-07.1   79    26.00   1753    1078   19724   4857     78.6    1.651
-03.6   82    27.00   1825    1168   21952   5144     81.0    1.572
+00.0   85    28.00   1897    1263   24407   5424     83.3    1.497
+03.6   88    29.00   1970    1362   27123   5698     85.4    1.427
+07.1   91    30.00   2043    1464   30128   5962     87.4    1.361
+10.7   94    31.00   2116    1571   33461   6216     89.3    1.300
+14.3   97    32.00   2189    1681   37144   6457     91.0    1.242  ! Near Maximum !
+17.9  100    33.00   2261    1794   41207   6683     92.6    1.187  ! Near Maximum !

[P Flados]

The 165 looks a lot like a bevel base version of the Lee 170. I took the Lee 170 and decreased the weight to 165 gr. The lee will seat to 0.415" using the crimp groove, but I increased the seating depth to 0.434".

Cartridge          : .30-30 Win. (SAAMI)
Bullet             : .309, 170, LEE C309-170-F (adjusted to 165)
Seating depth      : .434 inch
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.588 inch = 65.74 mm
Barrel Length      : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm
Powder             : Hodgdon H4895

CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms
-35.7   55    18.00   1192     520    8367   2674     58.5    2.520
-32.1   58    19.00   1258     580    9412   2948     61.5    2.389
-28.6   61    20.00   1326     644   10568   3230     64.4    2.265
-25.0   64    21.00   1395     713   11848   3518     67.3    2.149
-21.4   67    22.00   1464     785   13261   3809     70.2    2.036
-17.9   70    23.00   1534     862   14822   4103     72.9    1.929
-14.3   73    24.00   1605     943   16543   4398     75.5    1.830
-10.7   76    25.00   1675    1029   18448   4691     78.1    1.738
-07.1   79    26.00   1747    1118   20550   4981     80.5    1.653
-03.6   82    27.00   1818    1211   22872   5266     82.9    1.573
+00.0   85    28.00   1890    1308   25439   5545     85.0    1.498
+03.6   88    29.00   1961    1409   28280   5815     87.1    1.428
+07.1   91    30.00   2033    1514   31426   6074     89.0    1.363
+10.7   94    31.00   2104    1622   34893   6322     90.8    1.301
+14.3   97    32.00   2176    1734   38712   6556     92.4    1.243  ! Near Maximum !

[P Flados]

If you are happy down around 1500 fps or less, a powder like Universal or Unique will get you there with a much lower cost per round and will allow you to save your very hard to replace H4895 for full power loads.

Cartridge          : .30-30 Win. (SAAMI)
Bullet             : .309, 150, LEE C309-150-F (adjusted to 158)
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.570 inch = 65.28 mm
Barrel Length      : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm
Powder             : Hodgdon Universal

CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms
-38.5   36     8.00   1341     631   21047   1769    100.0    1.774
-30.8   40     9.00   1428     716   25183   1969    100.0    1.637
-23.1   45    10.00   1510     800   29576   2165    100.0    1.524
-15.4   49    11.00   1588     885   34225   2359    100.0    1.431
-07.7   54    12.00   1663     970   39133   2550    100.0    1.351  ! Near Maximum !

[linko]

P Flados, I Really appreciate the great detailed data you provided. I have been working in the dark.

I have plenty of H4895 powder so your data is very helpful. Didn't realize these bullets could be loaded using H4895 above 21.0 gr. I will work up some loads based on these data and give the range another trip. What program do you use for the calculations? Looks impressive.

thanks again

[firefly1957]

There is a thread here about a place that turned a lot of old Reloading books to .PDF for free download but I lost the link here is some links that you might find useful . Today you use a browser to open .PDF files as adobie is re-owned and acrobat readers often are locked from use!

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...ld-and-current

It also helps if you give us a idea what you want in a load as cast bullets in 30-30 or .35 Rem can go from cat sneeze to factory specs .


P.S. some of the links are dead but all of the IDEAL?LYMAN books downloaded . One link went to the page I was looking for and I got a 404 ERROR and the page closed .

[P Flados]

What program do you use for the calculations?

The program is Quickload. It is not cheap and can be a little tricky to understand how to use properly. It also is "just a prediction" that can be off. It is most helpful when used in conjunction with some chrono data. However, without chrono data it is still much better than "working in the dark".

The 30-30 is one of those cartridges where there is really no observable attribute that will reliably tell an average reloader that his ammo is over the SAAMI limit. Most 30-30 guns can handle pressures above the SAAMI 30-30 limit, but that is another discussion. I recommend being very cautions if you want to push your loads up close to published data for jacketed bullets of a similar weight to you cast bullets.

[Gobeyond]

You can go down but you can’t go up. Use the data for a heavier bullet on a lighter bullet. Not the other way around. Which is what these guys are saying. You could even go 170 grain data for the 165 or the 158 gr. The manuals mostly not all the times use less powder for the larger bullets. So it’s safe to go down in weight.

[linko]

Before I shoot loads that were calculated by the Quickload provided by P Flados (thanks)

The cautions question is, am I safe to try loads above the max in the loading manuals if I follow the data shown from quickload above?

The Saami max pressure is 42,000 Psi

I plan to try the range from 20.0 to 30. grains. These look to be well below saami max pressure.

Cartridge : .30-30 Win. (SAAMI)
Bullet : .309, 150, LEE C309-150-F (adjusted to 158)
Seating depth : .434 inch
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.470 inch = 62.74 mm
Barrel Length : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H4895
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-35.7 54 18.00 1194 500 8071 2578 56.6 2.509
-32.1 58 19.00 1261 558 9073 2846 59.5 2.380
-28.6 61 20.00 1329 619 10180 3122 62.4 2.259
-25.0 64 21.00 1398 685 11405 3405 65.3 2.145
-21.4 67 22.00 1467 755 12758 3692 68.1 2.034
-17.9 70 23.00 1538 830 14251 3983 70.9 1.928
-14.3 73 24.00 1609 908 15901 4275 73.5 1.829
-10.7 76 25.00 1681 991 17721 4567 76.1 1.737
-07.1 79 26.00 1753 1078 19724 4857 78.6 1.651
-03.6 82 27.00 1825 1168 21952 5144 81.0 1.572
+00.0 85 28.00 1897 1263 24407 5424 83.3 1.497
+03.6 88 29.00 1970 1362 27123 5698 85.4 1.427
+07.1 91 30.00 2043 1464 30128 5962 87.4 1.361
+10.7 94 31.00 2116 1571 33461 6216 89.3 1.300
+14.3 97 32.00 2189 1681 37144 6457 91.0 1.242 ! Near Maximum !
+17.9 100 33.00 2261 1794 41207 6683 92.6 1.187 ! Near Maximum !