A good day with the Volunteer

[Nobade]

This was the first time I got to shoot my P-H Volunteer since I epoxy bedded it, and the first time I'd tried it with grease groove bullets. Both things were successful. As I got it, the tang sat too low and the barrel was hitting the lock plate. Tightening the tang screw would lift the barrel out of the forend. So, the epoxy fixed that and now there's way less stress and much less chance of damage and stock splitting. The bullets were the Lee 405gr hollow base Government bullet copy that Spence Wolf commissioned. I cast them in pure lead, ran them through the .457" lubrisizer and then the .450" push through. Started at 70 grains of powder, sounded weak. 80 sounded better but was hitting a bit low. 90 grains put them dead on to the sights and 10 grouped into less than 2 inches at 100 yards. I'm pretty enthused that it was working so well, especially with my old eyes. A fun day of shooting for the holiday!

[LAGS]

I do lots of epoxy bedding on the rifles that I rebuild or build from scratch.
Lots of people don't feel that bedding the barrel on a ML rifle will help with accuracy.
But it does keep everything aligned and snug so when disassembled it lines back up the same way each time it is disassembled.
I am glad to hear that your rifle shot great.
Like you mentioned.
Bedding , or even partial bedding makes the parts align better.

[Tatume]

Your results are identical to mine with 90 gr FFFg and the Lyman 451114 mold. My Parker Hale Volunteer is my all-time favorite muzzle loading rifle. For hunting I size my bullets to 0.452" and for range work I use 0.450" bullets. They shoot to the same point of aim and with the same accuracy. The reason my hunting bullets are larger is to assure they don't move off the powder in a day of walking. The smaller bullets load with almost no resistance, even after shooting 20 or 30 of them.

My gun is not bedded. It was a prize gun at a world championship match, held in Germany that year. My friend, a member of the United States International Muzzle Loading Team, won the gun, and traded it to me for a Stutzen hunting rifle. It hangs on the wall right behind me as I write this.

If you ever want to try the Lyman 451114 bullets just let me know, although your bullets are shooting as well as mine. The deer will never know the difference between 405 and 450 grains of lead.

[LAGS]

I am sure that antique rifles or ones used in competition are not permitted to be bedded.
Same goes for military shoots for mil surps.
But if your rifle is used for hunting.
I am sure that it in most cases can be of some benefit.
The bedding also makes your rifle a little more weather resistant

[Tatume]

I am sure that antique rifles or ones used in competition are not permitted to be bedded. Same goes for military shoots for mil surps

This is true of some antique rifle competition rules, e.g.:
United States International Muzzle Loading Team
[...]
c.) Modern chemical materials such as fibreglass and epoxy resin may not be used for bedding barrels.

On the other hand, here's what CMP has to say about glass bedding the M1 Garand:

4.1.4 M1 Garand-Type Service Rifle
[...]
d) ... Synthetic materials may be applied to the interior of the stock to improve the bedding.

NRA rules are the same.

[LAGS]

I have seen old rifles that were bedded with Sap or Rosin.
If done right.
That stuff gets as hard as epoxy.
Probably way harder to do bedding with.
But they did use it for a reason before the epoxy came into play.

[Gtek]

With a pop then a woooomph, a cloud of smoke and holes where it made you happy, glad to hear you had a good day with it! Airboat, rifle and behind at house here all day with hard drizzle not letting up.

[Tatume]

I have seen old rifles that were bedded with Sap or Rosin.
If done right.
That stuff gets as hard as epoxy.
Probably way harder to do bedding with.
But they did use it for a reason before the epoxy came into play.

They often used hide glue, sometimes mixed with fine sawdust. This is also not allowed in some competitions.

[Nobade]

Tatume, thank you for the kind offer. I had wondered how the rifle would perform with those bullets, but like you said I don't see how it could be any better than it is now given the limits of my own vision. I do have a smooth sided 550 grain paper patch mold from Buffalo Arms that I used to use in BPCR, I am planning on trying that next to see how it handles the bigger bullets. I believe the barrel is 1:20 twist so it should shoot something that long with no problem.
One thing I enjoy with this rifle is even though it is basically a caseless 45-90 as far as performance, I don't have to clean or prep brass to use it. Just have a bit slower rate of fire, but who is in a hurry anyhow?

[Good Cheer]

After collecting longer .457" rifle molds with the intent of putting together a faster twist muzzleloader...
I finally got around to measuring the lengths and plugging them into a twist calculator and was surprised to see what came out. This is inputting .470" diameter as I'd go with .458" bore and .470" grooves. Should the input diameter be the average between bore and groove diameters? I don't know and just went with the boolits expanding to fill the grooves and input the value as .470". So any how, here's what I got with one of the twist calculators I've been using. I used 1200FPS as by guess and by golly for velocity.
Lyman #457125, 21" twist needed.
RCBS #45-500 (gas check base), 21" twist needed.
Lyman #451114 (the .457" diameter version), 25" twist needed.
Lyman #457121, 23" twist needed.



Never tried those in the 24" twist rifle (27" long barrel, .458" bore and .470" groove) that well shoots molds more like Lyman #457124 and #457193. Even 1200FPS would be a bit optimistic in the shorter barrel as 90 grains of FFg gives 1285FPS with #457124. Any how, if I go for the faster twist and longer barrel I reckon the same formula as makes the Volunteer a success is what I'll go for.

[Good Cheer]

Oh yeah, forgot this old NEI design.

[Nobade]

The numbers are close, though you can get away with stretching them a bit. My 1:22 Trapdoor shoots #457125 really well.
A .458" bore rifle would indeed be a neat thing to have. Besides Bob Hoyt, does anybody else make those?

[Good Cheer]

Good to know about the 22" twist.
The rifle barrel I use is from Hoyt. I don't know of anyone else to go to.
Perhaps revamping a Renegade would be the best way to go.

[Good Cheer]

Then again Nobade, maybe I'd be smarter to find a neglected rusty sewer pipe Armisport 1853 and have it relined.
Just mulling things over on which direction.

Grubbing around the fun room I just found a sewer pipe left handed TC New Englander barrel so yup, now I have to do something!
What do you think, 20" twist?

[Nobade]

That's what the Volunteer is, and it handles any reasonable bullet I've tried. I saw where Hoyt is 2 years behind now, so you'll have plenty of time to contemplate it.

[Good Cheer]

Nobade, could you tell me what the rifling geometry is on the Volunteer?
Number of grooves?
Depth of grooves?
Width of lands versus width of grooves?

[Nobade]

It has Henry type rifling. Not anything like a modern made barrel. There is a good picture of it, with dimensions, here:
https://chestofbooks.com/reference/A...-10/Rifle.html

I do think Krieger has the cutters to make barrels like this, but you'll pay for it in time and money. I don't know of anybody else in the US that can make them.

I do have a Remington 700ML that I rebarelled to 35 caliber with an Adams and Bennett barrel, which also shoots quite well and it is just a normal modern cartridge rifle form so they do seem to work ok that way too.

[Good Cheer]

Thank you for the link sir.
Getting my info together to send the TC barrel off in tomorrow's mail.

[Nobade]

You're welcome. I hope you have great results with your project!