Proposed rule on individual gun sales.

[JimB..]

You guys, just wait a second. NONE of you actually watched the video did you? Or if you did, you MISSED the listening part. This rule change was made possible BY AN ACT OF CONGRESS LAST YEAR. Again, CONGRESS PASSED THE SAFER ACT last year and it CHANGED THE DEFINITION OF BEING IN THE BUSINESS.
And yes on a personal note, I think most gun laws, most taxes, and almost all laws that the feds have passed in the last 75 or so years are illegal under the constitution. Considering almost everything we do, make or sell interstate commerce is wrong if it doesn't cross state lines. But I'm not going to change anything by being arrested and charged with a crime. I'd only be going to jail. Just look at what has been done to the Jan 6th protestors. I posted this to WARN any of you old farts to watch what you are doing and change if needed. The feds WILL CRUSH YOU. 2nd amendment or not.

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I did not watch, but yes am aware of the changes in the bipartisan safer communities act of 22. For those interested, start at pg 10 of https://www.congress.gov/117/plaws/p...117publ159.pdf dealing with sales to folks under 21.

The big change was to remove the concept that you made a meaningful portion of your living from the activity, leaving just that you predominantly intend to earn a profit. This is why their presumptive language makes little sense, they want to presume that your intent is to make a profit and then require you to prove you’re just enhancing a collection or otherwise hobbying. I don’t know how it withstands judicial review, but the test case will likely be somebody that buys 100 glock 17’s, fits them with switches and sells them to gang members for $1,500 each. Hopefully one or more of our industry groups is working on a legal strategy.

FWIW, the statute states “ The term ‘to predominantly earn a profit' means that the intent underlying the sale or disposition of firearms is predominantly one of obtaining pecuniary gain, as opposed to other intents, such as improving or liquidating a personal firearms collection: Provided, That proof of profit shall not be required as to a person who engages in the regular and repetitive purchase and disposition of firearms for criminal purposes or terrorism.” This language says that the state will have to prove that a seller’s primary motivation was to make a profit or that they engaged in regular and repetitive purchase and disposition for criminal purposes or terrorism. It’s a pretty high bar.

[Txcowboy52]

Since when did the ATF aquire the power to create and institute laws? The 2nd amendment is clear to me ! Maybe it’s time for the ATF to be dismantled along with several other government agencies I can think of !!

[10x]

You guys, just wait a second. NONE of you actually watched the video did you? Or if you did, you MISSED the listening part. This rule change was made possible BY AN ACT OF CONGRESS LAST YEAR. Again, CONGRESS PASSED THE SAFER ACT last year and it CHANGED THE DEFINITION OF BEING IN THE BUSINESS.
And yes on a personal note, I think most gun laws, most taxes, and almost all laws that the feds have passed in the last 75 or so years are illegal under the constitution. Considering almost everything we do, make or sell interstate commerce is wrong if it doesn't cross state lines. But I'm not going to change anything by being arrested and charged with a crime. I'd only be going to jail. Just look at what has been done to the Jan 6th protestors. I posted this to WARN any of you old farts to watch what you are doing and change if needed. The feds WILL CRUSH YOU. 2nd amendment or not.

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You are correct, gun owners must work within the law to make the laws and change the laws.
The first thing gun owners must do is become politically involved and show up at the events where the politicians are nominated to ensure that gun owners have nominated a candidate who understands the role of the Senate and Congress in making criminal and administrative law.
Those who make the laws forget that the criminal laws (felony laws) are laws to punish those who infringe on individual rights - Felony laws include threats, violence to the person, injury to a person, theft of property, and homicide
The gun laws have no violence, no threat, no harm at all to any individual other than the gun owner charged.
Gun laws are the whim of the legislators and as yet have shown no known change in criminal behavior, other than making possession and use of firearms criminal behavior - remember no victim.
Infraction of a whim of an government agency does not meet the definition of felony as the whim has no relation to violence or harm to the person in any way.
The legislators in the USA do NOT understand their obligation to the people who voted for them. They are servants of the public, no more no less. And they are bound to govern and create legislation that reconciles with the constitution.
Sending an individual to jail for an event or action with no victim is not supported by the U.S. Constitution.
Even making possession of certain firearms conditional on a tax is an infringement of the 2nd amendment.

The swamp has to be drained and every member of the Senate and Congress has to be held to their oath to uphold the constitution. Weasel word end runs (creative thinking) to suspend rights are criminal, and may in fact be treason.

The official investigation of the Jan 6 shows there is a swamp to be drained because it became a political medial circus
Your comment about "the feds will crush you" is very telling. It seems gun owners are becoming the enemy of the state - by policy

[JimB..]

Since when did the ATF aquire the power to create and institute laws? The 2nd amendment is clear to me ! Maybe it’s time for the ATF to be dismantled along with several other government agencies I can think of !!

They don’t have the power to create law, but they are tasked with implementing rules that effectuate the laws passed by congress. For example congress passes a law saying that all public school children will be given a ride to school, then an administrative agency figures out how to make that happen. The process for creating those rules has opportunity for public comment, but ultimately the agency does what it thinks best and the courts decide if either the law passed by congress or the rules created by the agency violate the constitution.

[10x]

Since when did the ATF aquire the power to create and institute laws? The 2nd amendment is clear to me ! Maybe it’s time for the ATF to be dismantled along with several other government agencies I can think of !!

There is a bureaucratic overhead that has become a swamp.
First one has to identify the swamp, then one has to drain it...

[Rapier]

We of the 1st District of FL are lucky, we have no need to waste our time explaining the 2nd to our congressman. He has already made a motion to dismantle the ATF, he authored the Stand Your Ground Law, that became law in FL and then defended the law before the Supreme Court and won. Best thing is he is smart, very smart.

[10x]

We of the 1st District of FL are lucky, we have no need to waste our time explaining the 2nd to our congressman. He has already made a motion to dismantle the ATF, he authored the Stand Your Ground Law, that became law in FL and then defended the law before the Supreme Court and won. Best thing is he is smart, very smart.

Too bad there are few people smart enough to run the country who run for office.
The USA needs more like him.

[Big Tom]

The way I read it, is that it is assumed that a profit is targeted unless "absent reliable evidence to the contrary" - meaning that the seller has to prove that there was no intent to predominantly make a profit...

.... “ The term ‘to predominantly earn a profit' means that the intent underlying the sale or disposition of firearms is predominantly one of obtaining pecuniary gain, as opposed to other intents, such as improving or liquidating a personal firearms collection: Provided, That proof of profit shall not be required as to a person who engages in the regular and repetitive purchase and disposition of firearms for criminal purposes or terrorism.” This language says that the state will have to prove that a seller’s primary motivation was to make a profit or that they engaged in regular and repetitive purchase and disposition for criminal purposes or terrorism. It’s a pretty high bar.

[JimB..]

The way I read it, is that it is assumed that a profit is targeted unless "absent reliable evidence to the contrary" - meaning that the seller has to prove that there was no intent to predominantly make a profit...

Correct, but I think that fails in the courts. Consider getting a warrant, the LEO has to demonstrate probable cause to the judge, in this case the agency is trying to tie the hands of the judge essentially allowing them to get a warrant based only on evidence that someone sold a gun. It’s ludicrous.

[Shawlerbrook]

Here in the People’s Republic of New York it all is moot as the one party government has already eliminated private gun sales without going through an ffl ( background check). Also need the same to buy and sell ammo. If 2024 elections go sideways, that will be the law of the land.

[JimB..]

Here in the People’s Republic of New York it all is moot as the one party government has already eliminated private gun sales without going through an ffl ( background check). Also need the same to buy and sell ammo. If 2024 elections go sideways, that will be the law of the land.

This is what I’ll call Trump’s Folly. His running precludes another republican candidate, and yet not only do I expect Biden to beat him again, I expect us to lose seats in both houses of congress. If the democrats get full control things we’ll be anti 2a for at least a decade or two. Best bet for a republican victory is that both presumed nominees are dead or incapacitated, and the sooner the better!

[Handloader109]

Here in the People’s Republic of New York it all is moot as the one party government has already eliminated private gun sales without going through an ffl ( background check). Also need the same to buy and sell ammo. If 2024 elections go sideways, that will be the law of the land.

Agreed, but understand, part of what is in this rule is that even going through an ffl can make you a felon if you are selling more than a single gun... again, just be careful. Reality can bite you.

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[10x]

Agreed, but understand, part of what is in this rule is that even going through an ffl can make you a felon if you are selling more than a single gun... again, just be careful. Reality can bite you.

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Making people felons for a simple sale of property is a constructive infringement on the 2nd amendment.
An end run around the rights affirmed by the 2nd amendments

[JimB..]

Agreed, but understand, part of what is in this rule is that even going through an ffl can make you a felon if you are selling more than a single gun... again, just be careful. Reality can bite you.

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I don’t read it that way, can you walk me through how a sale with transfer through an FFL would trip someone up?