7.9 carcano

[Littlewolf]

can anybody point me to gear to reload for this caliber brass and dies mainly.

[backwoods_bob]

The Carcano was issued to the Italian forces in 6.5 and 7.35. If you find brass for one it can be reformed into the other with little effort. Bullets are trickery, good luck.

The Germans modified the rifle to take their 7.92x57, should be easy to find. I am sure that there are others, maybe .308.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Backwoods_bob's information is correct. However, for a more comprehensive response you might clarify your request a bit. There never was, to my knowledge, a 7.9 Carcano. Some were converted to used 7.92x57mm (8 mm Mauser), and they shoot the regular 8mm Mauser cartridge. I own one, load it to .30-30 Win. specs and it is surprisingly accurate, but it is a single shot because, again to the best of my knowledge, no one has commercially produced the proper clips necessary to make it a repeater. It would doubtless hold up to firing full house 8mm loads, but it's kind of a shorty rifle, and the kick would probably be unpleasant. As for the more common 7.35mm Carcano, not only is it easy to form brass from the 6.5mm version, but the clips are the same. The clips for these cartridges are available as replicas from Gun Parts Corp. for $7.62 each, with originals running $23.14, and since after the last round is stripped from the clip it falls out of the bottom of the magazine housing and is easily lost, it is best to cover the hole with something like masking tape and pick it out of the top of the receiver with your fingers. As already stated, I know of no source for 8mm Mauser clips, if there ever were any. You can sometimes find new brass at reloading supply houses made by Norma (expensive) and can buy new production ammunition (6.5 only) from PPU. Sometimes small lots of brass will appear here in the Forum's Swappin' & Sellin' section. Original surplus Italian WW II ammo can still sometimes be found on sites such as Gunbroker.com, but it is Berdan primed and corrosive. The cases can be converted to the Boxer priming system, but it's labor intensive. As for dies, most major die manufacturers make them for the 6.5 and 7.35 mm cartridges, and I use Lee dies for both, and RCBS for 8 mm Mauser.



Here's my 8mm Carcano. The same rifle can be found in 6.5 or 7.35mm. I refinished it.

DG

[36g]

My understanding is that there were wartime 7.9 mm (8mm Mauser) and also some post-war versions for issue to occupation or newly reformed military groups. The post-war versions had the extra stock reinforcing bolt in the wrist area. I believe all were carbines of one sort or another with the Model 38 being the most popular.

[Littlewolf]

searching through wiki/google forum results there was some mention of mods to the Carcano clips to work with the Mauser case but no destructions on how to mod. all agreed that the 7.9 stamp is a misnomer where the chamber was truthfully 8 Mauser. Der yes looks same, M38 short rifle.
"for a more comprehensive response you might clarify your request a bit." at the time I posted the request that was as much knowledge I had on this rifle that belongs to a friends grandfather who was about to bubba the rifle because he couldn't translate the 7.9 stamp on the front of the receiver.

I thank you for the intell

[Der Gebirgsjager]

You're welcome for the intell. Actually, I enjoy discussing these rifles, although when it's been said it's been said, and there's not that much else to say.

They remain somewhat of an enigma in the collector world. Obviously, they started life as 7.35 mm rifles and were re-barreled or re-bored. There are several theories about by whom and when, and perhaps more than one of them is correct. The first is that the Germans altered them after the Allies invaded Italy and the Italian Fascist government surrendered. However many Italian troops remained loyal to the fascist cause and continued to retreat northward and fight alongside the Germans. Supposedly many of these rifles were converted for their use for commonality of ammunition supply.

There are several photos in some history books I possess about the war showing Volkssturm conscripts, mostly middle-late aged, wearing mixed civilian and military clothing, being taken to the outskirts of Berlin for the last ditch defense against the Russians. Many carry short Carcano rifles, and it's impossible to say in what caliber, but at that stage of the battle it is difficult to believe that supplies of 7.35mm were to be found in Berlin, so 7.92mm is likely with the conversions being done there in Berlin.

Another story goes that they were converted to 7.92mm by the Israelis during the earliest years of their country's founding. Many thousands of Carcanos were abandoned in N. Africa by retreating and captured Italians and stored in caves by the Bedouins. As the Israelis had settled on the 7.92mm as their standard cartridge, having obtained many thousands of K98k Mausers in Europe and needing still more weapons, they obtained many of the abandoned rifles and converted them to 7.92mm for issue to rear echelon troops and kibbutz guards. Where the truth lies I've never been able to ascertain, and perhaps there is some truth to all of it. I purchased my specimen about the time that the Israeli's began selling off their K98k Mausers, so if they had some Carcanos perhaps they were selling them off at the same time.

Lastly, the Mannlicher clips for the 7.92mm rifles has always been a problem, and it is my belief that no truly suitable clips exist. I have (years ago, now...) read all of the internet information about how to modify the existing 6.5mm and 7 .35mm clips to work with 7.92mm (8mm Mauser) ammo. None of them passed much beyond the "one of" stage. Some held and fed 2 or 3 cartridges, but I never saw one that held the Carcano's original load of 6. Most appeared mangled and deformed and did not fit well. The problem lies in the fact that the base of the Mauser cartridge is larger than that of the Carcano, so the clip must be widened at it's base to contain the larger cases which moves/stretches/deforms the rest of the clip so as to no longer fit. I once participated in another Forum which had a section devoted to Carcanos, and one member claimed that he and another member had perfected a clip that would work in all Carcano rifles in all calibers and that it was about to go into production. I never saw one, and think it was hot air. I've never tinkered with it myself, but were I to approach the problem I think I'd attempt to modify the magazine to a Mauser style with W spring and follower. Remove the issue internals and custom make the spring and follower, and I don't see why it wouldn't work. One might need a Mosin-Nagant type interrupter to retain the cartriges in the magazine until fed by the bolt. A good project for someone possessing the necessary gunsmithing skills and interest in doing it.

That's just about all I know about these interesting rifles. Mine shoots really well with cast boolits loaded to the .30-30 Win. pressures and velocities and is pleasingly accurate. But the single shot limitation kind of killed my interest in it after my initial experimentations, and I haven't shot it for years. I guess I've exhausted my knowledge on the subject.

DG

[36g]

DG - sounds kind of like you are describing the Japanese Carcano - Carcano action with a Mauser magazine box...

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Yeah--- pretty much. But they made them that way, and if I recall the bottom of the mag is flush with the stock. I was thinking more along the lines of a '91 Argentine with a single stack mag.

DG

[Littlewolf]

cool thank you Der, I may have to print this thread out