I am having an issue with Lee 44 special die and .432 cast bullet

[bcraig]

a while back I bought a Lee 3 die pass through 44 Special and bought some Matts 250 Grain Plain Base Hollow Point Bullets sized to .432.

Set up the dies on my Lee Hand Press today and resized 5 cases then was going to set the seating length to the small crimp groove and the bullet would not fit in the case,Kept fiddling with it and was able to flare the case enough to set a bullet in the case somewhat but when I tried to seat the bullet and set the crimp I noticed that there were 2 or 3 slivers of lead that had been pushed out to the crimp groove,20:1 alloy
The flare or bell is enough but apparently it does not go back far enough?
I was able to crimp a couple of dummy rounds but feel like I am wasting my time as I was wanting to fit the barrel of my Rossi 92 which comes out about .431 using a Micrometer .


Any way , can I buy a Larger expander plug to fit the Lee die ?
Is that going to solve the issue ?

The Lee dies are a set of 3 with the powder through .

[gunther]

Can you decap a fired case without sizing? Then prime, flare, add powder and seat the bullet. See if it will chamber. If it will, load several this way and see if they shoot, and group.

[Bazoo]

Giving it more flare will keep the case mouth from scraping lead as the bullet is seated. However, It sounds like your expander is too small for your bullet diameter.

Your expanding die needs to be no more than .002 smaller than the diameter of your bullet to prevent the bullet base from being swaged smaller by the case walls. You have to make sure the length of the expander is sufficient as well. If your bullet is for example .370 from the crimp groove to the base, but your expander only expands the brass down to .350, you will have your bases swaged. It will effectively turn your bullets into bevel based bullets. It may or may not cause a problem. Gas checked bullets don't have that issue as the GC resists swaging.

What you need is an NOE expander plug sized 434x430 for your bullets. It should fit in your die body but it'll "float" up and down, you'd need to find something to fill the gap so that it doesn't move up too far (your shell holder will bottom out on the die body with shorter cases, you may get away with it with 44 Special but I doubt it). A short section of pipe or dowel rod would suffice.

Or you can buy the Lee universal expander die, and use that. Their expander plugs are more of a flare tool than an expander. But you get the die body, then you can use the NOE plug in the body, and use one of the Lee expander plugs on top of it. When you assemble the end cap it squeezes them together and the plug no longer moves up and down freely.

[bcraig]

No I cant but the thing is this is once fired starling brass that came from some 44 special HSM 240 Grain Semiwadcutter factory ammo amd the bullet fit on top of the case without being flared at all,I do know that the HSM is about 850 fps when fired from a 5.5 revolver.
Using tite group Powder according to the Factory Rep that I talked with so dont know if the case even expanded to full diameter.

[bcraig]

Giving it more flare will keep the case mouth from scraping lead as the bullet is seated. However, It sounds like your expander is too small for your bullet diameter.

I think that is true

Your expanding die needs to be no more than .002 smaller than the diameter of your bullet to prevent the bullet base from being swaged smaller by the case walls. You have to make sure the length of the expander is sufficient as well. If your bullet is for example .370 from the crimp groove to the base, but your expander only expands the brass down to .350, you will have your bases swaged. It will effectively turn your bullets into bevel based bullets. It may or may not cause a problem. Gas checked bullets don't have that issue as the GC resists swaging.
I took the expanderout of the die and checked with the mic and at the ende that first goes into the case it showed .428 and taoers going toward the fat partand the lat place i can get a solid read is bout .440'
nd is too short by bout the width of the the band right above the grease groove.

What you need is an NOE expander plug sized 434x430 for your bullets. It should fit in your die body but it'll "float" up and down, you'd need to find something to fill the gap so that it doesn't move up too far (your shell holder will bottom out on the die body with shorter cases, you may get away with it with 44 Special but I doubt it). A short section of pipe or dowel rod would suffice.

What does the 434x430 mean ?
Yes the factory expander plug in it has quite a bit of up and down to it.
I have several pieces of dowel rod.

Or you can buy the Lee universal expander die, and use that. Their expander plugs are more of a flare tool than an expander. But you get the die body, then you can use the NOE plug in the body, and use one of the Lee expander plugs on top of it. When you assemble the end cap it squeezes them together and the plug no longer moves up and down freely.

Where can I take a look at the NOE expander Plug?

Thank's

[Bazoo]

434x430 is NOEs numbering system. It means that the expanding plug's upper portion that creates the step is .434, and the main section is .430 in diameter. The step makes a little "shelf" inside the case and gives clearance for a bullet to set down inside the case. Here is the link, 434x430

[45workhorse]

https://noebulletmolds.com/site/shop...30-p-exp-plug/


Here it is.

[bcraig]

Thanks

[bcraig]

https://noebulletmolds.com/site/shop...30-p-exp-plug/


Here it is.

Thank's

[bcraig]

434x430 is NOEs numbering system. It means that the expanding plug's upper portion that creates the step is .434, and the main section is .430 in diameter. The step makes a little "shelf" inside the case and gives clearance for a bullet to set down inside the case. Here is the link, 434x430

How much further will the Plug reach down into the case?

[Bazoo]

How much further will the Plug reach down into the case?

I have a 433x429 plug, which will be identical in length. Max length it will expand is .350.

[jetinteriorguy]

I use NOE powder through expanders in all my pistols along with a Lee Pro Disc. Fantastic product and a great company to deal with. Best communication ever, any questions just call and leave a message. Most calls are returned the same day or within 24 hours.

[bcraig]

I just got off the phone with the guy that sells the expander plugs for the Lee expander die that I have and going to be a few weeks before he has some more but I can wait till then.

Nice guy to talk with on the phone.

Thanks to all for the help.

[lightload]

I just got off the phone with the guy that sells the expander plugs for the Lee expander die that I have and going to be a few weeks before he has some more but I can wait till then.

Nice guy to talk with on the phone.

Thanks to all for the help.

I have a Lyman M die in 44 cal. That will solve your problem. PM me your address. I'll send it to you. Pay the postage.

[bcraig]

I have a Lyman M die in 44 cal. That will solve your problem. PM me your address. I'll send it to you. Pay the postage.

That's Very Nice of you

Sent you a PM

[Bazoo]

I have a Lyman M die in 44 cal. That will solve your problem. PM me your address. I'll send it to you. Pay the postage.

Very nice gesture!

[bcraig]

Giving it more flare will keep the case mouth from scraping lead as the bullet is seated. However, It sounds like your expander is too small for your bullet diameter.

Your expanding die needs to be no more than .002 smaller than the diameter of your bullet to prevent the bullet base from being swaged smaller by the case walls. You have to make sure the length of the expander is sufficient as well. If your bullet is for example .370 from the crimp groove to the base, but your expander only expands the brass down to .350, you will have your bases swaged. It will effectively turn your bullets into bevel based bullets. It may or may not cause a problem. Gas checked bullets don't have that issue as the GC resists swaging.

What you need is an NOE expander plug sized 434x430 for your bullets. It should fit in your die body but it'll "float" up and down, you'd need to find something to fill the gap so that it doesn't move up too far (your shell holder will bottom out on the die body with shorter cases, you may get away with it with 44 Special but I doubt it). A short section of pipe or dowel rod would suffice.

Or you can buy the Lee universal expander die, and use that. Their expander plugs are more of a flare tool than an expander. But you get the die body, then you can use the NOE plug in the body, and use one of the Lee expander plugs on top of it. When you assemble the end cap it squeezes them together and the plug no longer moves up and down freely.

I got the Powder through 434x430 Expander Plug along with the Powder Through exp plug adapter and the powder through exp plug over travel ring.
cost was $17.50 plus 8.05 Shipping for a Total of $25.55

After taking the Lee Factory Expander Plug out and putting the 3 pieces and a little tweeking on the die was was able to push the .432 Bullet into the 44 special case easily down to the crimp ring and when I took the dummy round out of the shell holder I was able to pull the bullet from the 44 special case with my fingers and insert a new bullet into the case with very little finger pressure .
I am going to readjust the the die to get a little more case tension on the Bullet to make sure the bullet does not push into the case after A Medium roll crimp is applied and worked through the Rossi 92 carbine.

That and about 5.5 grains of HP-38 should get me about where I want to be.

I also used Some JB putty to put into the bullet seating stem and will see if that solves the issue of the Big Hollowpoint closing up when using the Factory round nose bullet Seating plug.
And I expect it to.

Thank you much for the Advice

[Three44s]

The Lyman "M" die is a very useful expander die. Two more sides of the equation is to make sure you are inside deburring your case mouths and not excessively under sizing your cases in the first place.

I use a VLD deburring tool almost exclusively lately.

As for over sizing brass, that's a whole 'nuther kettle of fish. While carbide sizer dies are very prevalent now, they are not very conducive to lapping to a larger size for lay folks. While different die makers have different sizing criteria it's not easy to get info from them as to specific dimensions.

Other than trial and error, that of buying dies until you fall into one that sizes less, it leaves one to buying a steel die and laaping/having it lapped out somewhat.

Three44s

[mdi]

Shaving boolits when searing? Add more flare. Trying to push a .432" slug into a .429" tube can be pretty difficult. Bullets, cast and others, need an entry way into the case. That entry way is case mouth flare...
K.I.S.S.!

[longbow]

I have a fat bored Marlin 1894 in .44 mag. and find that the carbide dies really size... over size the brass, then when I seat my 0.434" boolits the loaded rounds look funny because they are bulging under the boolit! They chamber and fire fine but as noted, case mouths are chamfered and deburred then flared. I also keep the brass annealed. If you have the correct size expander plug you may not have to worry about annealing so much but I was finding that the brass was squeezing down the boolit base a bit during seating.

I should see about getting sizing dies that are larger or can be opened up as the brass is being worked a lot with oversizing then expanding. You will be in the same situation. However, with the proper size expander plug you should have better results.

Longbow