.30-40 Krag Advice

[OrlonTheBrave]

Just gave the bore a good cleaning. It doesn’t look as pristine as I imagined when I purchased it, as it has some pitting near the muzzle, but the bore is otherwise bright and the rifling sharp enough, given its age. I also checked the crown with a q-tip, and found no noticeable burrs.

My Midway order should arrive this week. Till then, my revised possible causes are:
- Undersized bullets
- Jump (too short COAL)
- Shaved lead when seating
- Worn bore (might account for some spread, but certainly not all)

Can’t wait to slug the barrel.

[littlejack]

I really like your stock. Have you any idea who the maker was? Keep pluggin away. "Endevor to Persivere!

[GrizzLeeBear]

Unless I am mistaken, those ACME boolits do not have gas checks on them. Powder coating is NOT a replacement for a gas check. Your load is probably around 1,700 fps. Along with getting a larger diameter bullet I would recommend a gas checked bullet at those speeds.

[brstevns]

My Rolling Block measures .3115 I shoot bullets sized to .314 with good results. Mine likes the Lyman 311284, Lyman 314299 and if I powder coat it the Lee 230gr made for the Blackout does well.

[WRideout]

I don't have a Krag, but I do cast the Lyman 311284, 220 gr gas checked boolit for my 30-06 (and Russian Mosin). If you PM me your address, I will send you some, free gratis. I can size them either .311" or .313".

BTW, that aftermarket stock looks beautiful on your Krag. Most of the Krags you can buy now have been sporterized with varying degrees of skill.

Wayne

[OrlonTheBrave]

Thank you for the kind offer, Wayne!

I don’t see any stamps on the stock, although it is a handsome piece of wood (walnut)? The recoil absorber is Red Head, who knows how old.

I slugged the bore! Used a .36 cal round ball from Hornady and a .22 casing on the end of a 1/8” brass rod. Many little taps.

The slug came out oblong, however. Is that normal? Some visible rifling, but not clear enough to measure. Rolling it around, the largest diameter I could find was .309” or so. I’m using Harbor Freight calibers, but I also measured one of the Acme bullets and that came out .309” on the dot.

If it’s supposed to come out round rather than oblong I can try again, although it’s seeming like the bore isn’t terribly oversized. Would it be worthwhile to slug the bore using the Acme bullet, to see if it comes out with visible rifling?

If the outer dimension of the bore is, in fact, .309”, should I be looking for .311” boolits?

[WRideout]

Bore diameter of a military 30 caliber rifle should be .308" so you may have a perfectly good one. I would try .311" to start.

As far as slugging the bore, I am no expert, but when I have done it, I tapped the slug in from the muzzle; using an oversize slug it would typically shave some lead from the circumference and fill the bore completely.

Wayne

[Char-Gar]

I am not new to the Krag having loaded and shot them for 50 plus years. Here is my counsel to the poster.

1. Krag barrels are usually coated with metal fouling and all cast bullet efforts will be in vain until the barrel is cleaned down to the bare steel. Shooting alloy bullets down a jacked bullet fouled barrel is like shooting them over a file.

2. Krag barrels groove diameter varies wildly from .308 to .317. .3095 is most common.

3. Slug the barrel if you wish, but it is not necessary, because all Krags have a very large throat and if the bullet matches the throat, it is guaranteed to be larger than the barrel groove diameter. It does no harm to the rifle or accuracy to shoot an alloy bullet larger than the barrel groove diameter.

4. Size your bullets as large as you can and still have the rounds chamber without binding in the chamber throat. This is usually about .312 - .315. The thickness of your case necks will be the determining factor. Sometimes it may be necessary to neck turn and thin the necks a smidge.

5. There are many cast bullets designs from 150 to 220 grains that will give good accuracy. Lyman 311284 is always a good bet as it was designed for the Krag rifle many years ago.

6. You will find accuracy in the 1.6 -1.8K fps range. A charge of 15-16 grains of 2400 will usually do the trick. Stay way from high pressure loading as they are brittle old rifles with only one locking lug.

7. All of the other cast bullet protocols like neck expansion, alloy temper and bullet lubrication etc, etc, apply.

6. Krag rifles often have excess headspace, so after the first firing to fit the case to the chamber, neck size only your cases.

[OrlonTheBrave]

MidwayUSA is having a sale on factory second bullets. I know lead should be oversized, but would .308” jacketed bullets work in a .309” bore? Something like the following: Factory Second Match Bullets 30 Caliber (308 Diameter) 208 Grain Polymer Tip Boat Tail
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1020524291?pid=431507

[WRideout]

MidwayUSA is having a sale on factory second bullets. I know lead should be oversized, but would .308” jacketed bullets work in a .309” bore? Something like the following: Factory Second Match Bullets 30 Caliber (308 Diameter) 208 Grain Polymer Tip Boat Tail
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1020524291?pid=431507

For the money, it looks like something you could try. HOWEVER; if it works really well, it is only as long as the factory blem bullets are available. After that, factory premium bullets may get a little pricey. Also, what do you intend to do with said rifle and load? A load worked up for target accuracy may be a poor hunting load.

Undersized bullets of any description generally don't do well.

Wayne

[35 Rem]

Not Krag specific but when I have been in doubt as to whether my bullets were being sized by the case necks, I've pulled a few bullets to measure and verify. You can use one of the Kinetic Hammer type bullet pullers with a wad of cotton inside to cushion the bullet so pulling doesn't deform it. Once you do this you know for a fact that your neck expander is working with your bullet and not sizing it down.

[OrlonTheBrave]

Hello friends,

An update! And I think I’ve answered my own question re: undersized bullets.

WRideout kindly sent me some of his cast boolits in the mail, sized .311 and .313” (thank you!).

I trimmed, chamfered and deburred all my cases, and loaded 5 with each, over 20.8 grains IMR 4227. I also loaded 10 rounds with my 155 grain .309” bullets, 5 seated to the crimp groove and 5 seated to the lube groove. I took them out to the range today, set at 50 yards.

https://imgur.com/a/1s96opV

The first two targets I shot with my 10/22 as a control. The next two are with the .309”s, and the bottom too with the .311” and .313”. The last two grouped! A little low and to the right, and the size of the group is mostly my fault (getting used to the sights and heavy military trigger), but the mechanical accuracy is there.

Next step will be to acquire some more bullets in the .311-.313” range (until I start casting myself). I don’t hunt (yet) so just going for accuracy at this point, but I’m very pleased we were able to narrow my long list of possible causes from my first post down to one cause (undersized bullets).

I’ll keep posting as I work on my load development, but I’m very happy to be grouping now.

[gwpercle]

Once you get the bore clean

Get a cast boolit that fits the bore properly (.311" - .313" is looking good )

The Lee C312-185-1R works for me - drops at .3125" diameter .

Try a similar weight boolit , heavy for caliber , 170 gr to 220 gr ...
...with 13.0 grs. Red Dot .

This is known as "The Load" ...

If your gun doesn't shoot 13.0 grs Red Dot with your proposed cast boolit choice ...
Something Dire is wrong . Every military rifle I have will shoot a properly fitting 30 cal. cast boolit , 170 gr. or heavier with 13.0 grs Red Dot into decent groups at 50 yards .

Keep On Keeping On ,
Gary

[WRideout]

Glad to see things are working out. If my problems were solved this easily, I wouldn't have a flat forehead from smacking myself.

Wayne

[Lance Boyle]

That wild variance is bore groove diameter did cause the army grief. They called in Harry Pope, barrel maker expert as a consultant. He basically looked at the inconsistency of what they were doing in barrel tolerances and had to chastise them for it. The model 1903 rifles did not have the same problem.

Edit. My Krag also takes 314299.

[300leonidas]

My favorite Krag load is a 200 Gr. Lee Cast bullet (which actually weighs about 190gr.) with 40 Grains IMR 4831. I powder coat and size the bullets to .311. These shoot very well in both my 30/40 krags.

You should do a cerrosafe chamber cast to check your chamber. See Mine below:

[BCB]

Many years ago, I had as custom barrel (1:10 twist) in 30-40 Krag cartridge made by MGM for my Encore. Plans to shoot cast only using the NOE 311-202-RN and the Lyman 311041

They Lyman boolit didn’t do well, but the NOE at ~210 grains did pretty good

I have never been a small charges of fast burner powder type guy. I like slow burners to fill the case as much as possible but still stay at 2000 fps or less for most rifle cast

WC-852 (4350 burn rate), WC-860 (slower) & WC-872 (slower yet). Unless you got into the surplus powder craze when they were readily available, you might not have these powers, but you get my idea—Slow Burners

I have a variable ‘scope on it, 4x-15x, if I remember (haven’t had it out in some time) and it would put 3 into the 1” or a tad larger, ball park most of the time at 100 yards

Side note; It would shoot the Hornady jacketed bullets 220 RN and the 165 SST into .5”+ at 100 yards

Good-Luck

[OrlonTheBrave]

Hello friends,

Happy New Year! Thank you for all the advice.

I haven’t had a chance to load up any more rounds. In December I fired off 20 rounds (220gr RN, 20.8 gr IMR 4227), and had 3 primers loose after firing, one of which popped out. I don’t think my rounds were overpressure, but rather the primer pockets on those 3 rounds got too loose (new primers slip in and out with finger pressure). Still scary, plus I’ve been thinking about a new source of brass (down to 40 pieces now). I’ve been thinking of picking up a .303 rifle and using brass from that: I heard it should work in a Krag but would just be a little short, which is fine cause I single-load anyways (thanks, magazine cutoff).

Thanks to Midway birthday pricing I also picked up a box of Speer 180gr .311” bullets for cheap. Finding load data for IMR 4227 and jacketed bullets has been hard (I should probably pick up another powder), so I’ll start low and work my way up.
https://imgur.com/a/OL5c9EH

Oh, and I’ll throw my Acme .309” bullets in the classifieds! Maybe one of y’all can get some use out of them.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Bullet fit probably, Lee makes a C312-185-1R that might work also. I started casting with a Coleman Stove a 10lb cast iron pot and a Lyman lead dipper(14 years old,1964), so a fancy set-up is not needed. There are many Lee haters, but I can now afford what I want and I still use a lot of Lee stuff. You might invest in a decent stainless steel dial caliper, RCBS, Lyman, others.... You can measure to half a thou - .0005" and they are more useful than a 1" micrometer. It is usually best to err on the side of fat bullets.