Auto Repair Bill Sticker Shock!

[elmacgyver0]

wow? are these prone to head gasket failures? why?

I routinely work on tractors from the 50's and only do the head gasket if they need valve work... meaning I have a bunch of 70 year old tractors with the original head gasket...

That's because the engines made out of good old cast iron.

[30calflash]

Head gaskets and axles along with wheel bearing replacement are common on these. I work at a Subaru shop and it's pretty common for all the above. HG issues much less with 2010 and newer but can happen if it overheats.

IMHO the 2000-2004 Legacy's, Outbacks and Baja's were built like tanks, kind of like older Volvos. High mileage, poor maintenance and in the NE rust is killing them off rapidly. There's 5 or 6 of them in the yard that are parts vehicles due to that.

If the car isn't leaving a trail when you drive it down the road you can live with the gasket leak for awhile, if it's an oil leak. A friend's leaks enough to coat the underside pretty well and runs great, just put a ton of suspension work into it.

Truthfully, have the shop or another just get it running. Might be the fuel pump something like that.

OR the timing belt let go and yeah, it's valves, re surface the heads, new gaskets (OEM Subaru Turbo gaskets!!) everything new on the front of the motor, water pump, all the idlers and belt. Cam and crank seals also. May as well do it right while the engine is out of the car.

Before you do that check for heavy rust, rear suspension crossmember and control arms go bad. Areas where the rear control arm bolts in are susceptible also. No sense fixing something that has seen better days.

[john.k]

Whats killed head gasket life is the asbestos ban .....the most useful substance known,if only people would have taken a bit of care around it............anyhoo,the gasket in my diesel pickup started leaking coolant into the oil....to get the job done was over $4000.......the cylinder head service wanted $1000 for an exchange head .....so ,I bought a new Chinese made head ,everything included except cam,for $700 delivered.....That was 6 years ago..........and I sold the original head for $300.

[Idaho45guy]

Head gaskets and axles along with wheel bearing replacement are common on these. I work at a Subaru shop and it's pretty common for all the above. HG issues much less with 2010 and newer but can happen if it overheats.

IMHO the 2000-2004 Legacy's, Outbacks and Baja's were built like tanks, kind of like older Volvos. High mileage, poor maintenance and in the NE rust is killing them off rapidly. There's 5 or 6 of them in the yard that are parts vehicles due to that.

If the car isn't leaving a trail when you drive it down the road you can live with the gasket leak for awhile, if it's an oil leak. A friend's leaks enough to coat the underside pretty well and runs great, just put a ton of suspension work into it.

Truthfully, have the shop or another just get it running. Might be the fuel pump something like that.

OR the timing belt let go and yeah, it's valves, re surface the heads, new gaskets (OEM Subaru Turbo gaskets!!) everything new on the front of the motor, water pump, all the idlers and belt. Cam and crank seals also. May as well do it right while the engine is out of the car.

Before you do that check for heavy rust, rear suspension crossmember and control arms go bad. Areas where the rear control arm bolts in are susceptible also. No sense fixing something that has seen better days.

Thanks! The car started right up after I dumped in 5-gallons of ethanol-free fuel. No smoke or other issues. My son-in-law used a fogging oil mixture to spray in the cylinders before starting to avoid ring damage.

It was running rough at first, but let it idle for about 40 minutes, then I drove it 5 miles into town. By the time I had stopped at a parts store and ran around town for about 20 minutes, it was running great and I loved how it drove. It was only when I filled the tank all the way that it started cutting out and died and acted like it wasn't getting fuel.

So, if the fuel pump gets replaced, it will run and drive fine.

Car is rust-free as we don't salt the roads around here, hence the popularity of Subarus and snow tires.

[Winger Ed.]

I'd pull the fuel filter line, turn on the key for a second first to see if the pump is working or not,
then put on a new fuel filter before I pulled the tank & changed the pump.
It might just have some crud in the tank from sitting so long, then got stirred around from driving it.

Something I learned from working on boats--
If I was working on a old boat that hadn't been started & run for a long time,
If there was 5 gallons of old gas in the tank, and I added 5 gallons of fresh gas, then I had 10 gallons of bad gas.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

Got a quote for my KIA Rio 4 cyl sedan to replace the spark plugs and ingition coil - $1,316 - wow!

[dverna]

Got a quote for my KIA Rio 4 cyl sedan to replace the spark plugs and ingition coil - $1,316 - wow!

That is crazy!!

[Winger Ed.]

Got a quote for my KIA Rio 4 cyl sedan to replace the spark plugs and ingition coil - $1,316 - wow!

That'd be around $850.oo USD.
Even if the plugs & individual coils are $100. each, that's still pretty strong.


They've changed them, but years ago,
Ford had spark plugs that could sometimes break off when you tried to change them.
There was a special tool to get the broken piece out, but if that didn't work, you'd have to pull the cyl. head.
There was horror stories of people being charged $4-5,000. USD for changing a set of V8 spark plugs if a few broke off.

I learned about this when one of mine broke. I was able to get the end out of the head with the special tool,
if it didn't come out, or fell into the engine-- I would have been looking at the pulling the head.

[30calflash]

Good to hear you got it started, yeah bad fuel will wreak havoc on a lot of stuff, especially newer vehicles. Drain/dump what you can, add a dry gas and fill with premium or the best fuel you can get.

Ethanol free, last time I saw that was a trip west 9 years back. Got it whenever I could.

[Sasquatch-1]

That'd be around $850.oo USD.
Even if the plugs & individual coils are $100. each, that's still pretty strong.


They've changed them, but years ago,
Ford had spark plugs that could sometimes break off when you tried to change them.
There was a special tool to get the broken piece out, but if that didn't work, you'd have to pull the cyl. head.
There was horror stories of people being charged $4-5,000. USD for changing a set of V8 spark plugs if a few broke off.

I learned about this when one of mine broke. I was able to get the end out of the head with the special tool,
if it didn't come out, or fell into the engine-- I would have been looking at the pulling the head.

I think they started using them in 2004. I have an "03" and it has the old style plugs. I understand they redesigned the plug to eliminate the problem. My opinion, it should have been a recall procedure.

[elmacgyver0]

Something else you may want to do if it's not already done is replace the anti-freeze.
Old anti-freeze becomes acidic and eats (corrodes) aluminum parts.

[Winger Ed.]

My opinion, it should have been a recall procedure.

My '06 F250 with a triton 5.4 had them.
I only broke one, but it was so far back up in there-
I thought I was going to have to take out the seat and go through the floor to get to it.

If they made it a warranty recall-
by the time Ford changed out so many heads when their service folks broke thousands plugs off- they'd have gone bankrupt.

[Kestrel4k]

I'd pull the fuel filter line, turn on the key for a second first to see if the pump is working or not,
then put on a new fuel filter before I pulled the tank & changed the pump.
It might just have some crud in the tank from sitting so long, then got stirred around from driving it. [...]

OP, the nice thing about your 2003 is that the fuel filter is right under the hood. Halfway through the 2004 model year, they moved the fuel filter to inside the fuel tank or some such nonsense. Ask me how I know. :-/

[CLAYPOOL]

Here's what i am getting ready to do. Bought a cheap electric fuel pump from Amazon. Added fuel line on both ends. TREAD DOWN INTO TANK and use separate battery to power it. Pump old fuel out into 5 gal bucket. BE CAREFUL.. vapor is DEADLY EXPLOSIVE..it will gather around your feet. Got a 1 ton dump to do this too. I poured 5 gallons into a very low hour MILLER Portable welded 5 to 7 years ago. We are going to unhook the fuel line going up to Carb and suck out what we can. ADD more new fuel and hang from Bobcat and shake. REPEAT as above for a cycle or 3. START OUTSIDE IN THE OPEN. Don't want a new pole barn...

[Hannibal]

And the Feds are worried about gunpowder.

Just sayin'.

If it's truly stale gasoline and particularly if has an ethanol content it's gonna be more like diesel fuel. It will readily burn but without some heat or atomization it's not explosive.

[fastdadio]

Good to hear you got it started, yeah bad fuel will wreak havoc on a lot of stuff, especially newer vehicles. Drain/dump what you can, add a dry gas and fill with premium or the best fuel you can get.

Ethanol free, last time I saw that was a trip west 9 years back. Got it whenever I could.

Find yourself on this list.
https://www.pure-gas.org/
I run corn free gas in everything except my daily drivers. It makes a big difference in the small engines/yard tools.

[MaryB]

Problem with the ethanol free gas around here is it has off road additives that will destroy a catalytic converter. I can't even find 93 octane I should run in my car...

[Winger Ed.]

If I remember, the old school Leaded gas would stop them right up.

[Hannibal]

Problem with the ethanol free gas around here is it has off road additives that will destroy a catalytic converter. I can't even find 93 octane I should run in my car...

I've never heard of 'off road additives' for any type of fuel besides dye in diesel because of the lack of road maintenance taxes. I presume you mean in Minnesota when you say around here. I'll have to do some 'net searches when time allows. That sounds strange to me.

I have heard it's possible to purchase fuel with additives to prevent valve seat wear in old engines that didn't have hardened valve seats. Perhaps that's what is available to you locally?

Edit to add - it's been a few years since I've seen any of that for sale, so it might be completely unavailable now. I'm not sure.

[Winger Ed.]

Here, the off road, or 'red' Diesel is different that what the gas station sells.
It has a higher Sulfur content, and actually runs better and is more 'powerful' than the yellow/green stuff.

Of course, when a State Trooper pushes that clear hose down in your truck's tank and pulls it up
with red fuel in it, the fine makes your knees get weak.