What Size Coated Bullets

[Alex Hamilton]

Hi Guys,

I have a friend who wants to start shooting cast bullets and he has asked me for help. He intends to powder coat the bullets and I have no experience of that whatsoever. Normally, my cast bullets work well when they are .002" above groove size. Does powder coating increase the size of the bullet and what allowance should be made for that? Secondly, is it possible to drive a powder coated bullet up to 1800ft/sec (muzzle velocity) without a gas check?

Many thanks,
Alex

[Wheelguns 1961]

Powder coat does increase the size of cast bullets. The simple solution is to size your bullets after powder coating.

[mehavey]

Q1. Cast --> PC --> Size in that order. Two-thou over sounds good)

Q2. Plain-Base/PC'd @ 1,800. Yes. Within limits
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...=1#post5001471

[405grain]

You didn't say what type of bullets your friend wants to cast. Rifle or pistol? The reason that I asked is because powder coating might increases the bullets diameter by as much as .002" (depending on the powder). Cast bullets are sized on the driving bands, but not on the nose. For pistol bullets and most rifle bullets this is no problem: just run the powder coated bullet through a sizer and you're good to go. No lube is required on a powder coated bullet, both to size or to shoot. The only problem with powder coating is when you want to coat a "bore rider" style rifle bullet. The powder coat makes the nose big enough that sometimes it won't chamber, and the sizing die doesn't size the nose.

When I make powder coated bullets I run the as cast bullets through a push through sizer. I do this because, if the cast bullets are already slightly oversized, and then I powder coat them, they can become so oversized that they become hard to push through the sizer. You don't need, or want, any lube on the bullets because this will contaminate the powder coating. When I run the freshly cast bullets through the sizer the first time I put them in a box and use a hand sprayer to give them a couple of pumps of 1/3 dish washing detergent and 2/3 water. The film of detergent acts as a lube for pushing the bullets through the sizer, but can then be washed off so that the bullets are clean and ready to powder coat. Once the bullets have been powder coated I run them back through the sizer. No lube is required for this, and because of the previous sizing the diameter only needs to be reduced by .001" to .002" for finishing the bullets. To avoid disappointment, don't use just any old powder coat: instead try the powders from Smoke here in the vendor's section, or start out with the proven "Ford Light Blue" from Eastwood Hotcoat. Back in the days when powder coating was just starting out people would try the powders from Harbor Freight, but after the first time of using an actual quality powder the HF stuff would go in the trash.

Bullets that are designed to use gas checks almost always shoot better with checks installed. Any loads above 1400 fps would greatly benefit from using gas checks. You "can" shoot a cast bullet at 1800 fps without a gas check, but the accuracy will be much better if there's a check installed (also much less of a chance of getting barrel leading). For powder coated bullets, it depends on the individual mold, but some bullets are easier to install the gas check on the bullet shank before it's powder coated, and on others its a better fit after the powder coating. Powder coating over the gas check causes no harm whatsoever. I've found that the Lee push through sizers work really well at crimping on the gas checks. NOE sizers also work well, but the Lee sizers seem to be smoother and a little easier to use. I've found that the Gator gas checks from Sage's Outdoors are really good, and cost less than the other brands.

[Alex Hamilton]

Thank you for the informative and such detailed reply. My friend intends to load for 303British and, thanks to your warning, I can see problems. Firstly, I have not anticipated that the bullet nose will also be coated and may be too big to chamber. Secondly, I assumed that powder coating will enable bullets to be driven at 1800 - 2000ft/sec without gas checks. If, as you say, leading might occur soon after 1400ft/sec, then powder coated bullets are no different from conventionally sized and lubricated. I use Lyman 450 Lubrisizer, which sizes, applies a gas check and lubricates in one operation, which appears faster and less complicated.

We both shoot at Bisley on ranges from 100 to 300yds on electronically marked targets. I attach a sample of my target for illustration - I hope it opens. The system works provided the bullet reaches the target supersonically, otherwise it records nothing if there is no supersonic crack. A long nose, bore riding bullet would be better, but I don't know how to get round the powder coat on the nose, which cannot be resized.

My gut reaction is to advise my friend not to go ahead with powder coating. A simple option would be to size bullet and apply gas checks with Lee sizer, as you suggested, and then tumble lubricate in Lee Liquid Alox. The bullets will not be as nice to handle as powder coated, but accuracy would be just as good.

Thanks again for the information.

Alex

[charlie b]

Depends a lot on the bullet nose design and the throat in the chamber. The surplus .303 may have enough throat eroded to allow a slightly oversize nose to chamber.

I run my bullets (even the lubed ones) through a nise size die (NOE) to precisely fit them to the bore of my rifle.

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[Cast10]

I began casting because of powder coating.

I coat 10mm pistol/carbine, 9mm, 38-55 rifle. I have shot carbine to over 1600fps and 38-55 to right at 1800fps. My experience has been good, as has been velocities and accuracy for hunting. Fitting the chamber seems to be more the concern than the bore. I slug the barrel and try to shoot .001 - 002 over. I only size my bullets AFTER pc. I let the pc bullets cool to around 90F before sizing. I use Hornady spray lube shot up in the sizer die during sizing to help with non-sticking issues. I am happy with results all the way around. I am not familiar with ‘bore riders’ but I would suggest reading/searching here on 303 British, as many are. With my alloy and PC, I don’t see much difference in overall size, maybe .0005, so usually with .001 sizers, no issue.

[charlie b]

PS I vote for gas checked rifle bullets if you want to run in the 1800-2000fps range.

FWIW, I shoot both bore rider (210gn) and std (165gn) in my .308. Both are gas checked and I shoot them between 1700 and 2200fps. The 210 is a bore rider. I cast, base size and crimp GC, nose size, PC, base size, nose size. The 165 I mostly just run through the lube sizer. If I do PC then I cast, size, PC, size again.