An Alternative to the 30 Badger / 30 Reece

[jdgabbard]

Anyone who has hung around this forum long enough will be familiar with the 30 Badger/30 Reece. These are really cool wildcats that have a lot in common with the 30 Tokarov, but with several advantages where it comes to shooting heavier bullets. Namely the longer neck of the 30 Badger which allows for a larger selection of boolits. I've personally wanted one for nearly a decade. But I've never quite had the extra cash or the local talent for having a barrel made. A real shame, since I would really like to have a rifle chambered in this cartridge.

Then the other day while surfing around the web looking at Shotgun Chamber Adapters I see that Chaszel is offering 18" chamber adatpers for the 20ga in 7.62x25 (Also reportedly has some chambered in 12ga). Being these are 18" adapters with about 17" of rifling (1/12 Twist) this seems like a nice stop-gap where it concerns shooting a similar cartridge without having to worry about expensive gunsmithing. I immediately ordered one of these adapters, and I'm expecting it to come in the mail today. I'll still need to go buy a 20ga to shoot this in. Of the three shotguns I own not a single one is in 20ga. But that said, there appear to be some budget priced options out there that appear to be reasonably strong - strong enough to handle the 30 Tok. Since H&R/NEF shotguns and handi-rifles have gone through the roof price wise this might be a better option... I remember when you couldn't hardly give those things away, with a gun store locally having them priced as low as $50 at one point.

While it would still be nice to eventually have a rifle chambered in 30 Badger/30 Reece, the Tok in an 18" barrel is still capable of some interesting performance. GRT reports that with an 18" barrel it's possible to drive a 95gr Boolit close to 1800fps, or a 120gr 311359 to around 1400fps. Though, I am not familiar with the alloy used, 1026 Steel. Which appears to be less durable than 4140. I can't say what type of barrel life one could expect from one of these adapters. Maybe someone here can chime in on the 1026 Steel...

But for those who have wanted a rifle in 30 Badger, this isn't the same thing, but it's a close alternative. And might be the right choice if you only prefer lightweight boolits. I imagine it's still going to be a fun plinking option either way. As I mentioned before the 30 Tok itself is pretty impressive for a pistol round.

Also, concerning the options for shotguns mentioned above, does anyone have any experience with the cheap break top shotguns available these days? They mostly appear to be Turkish in origin. I'm not sure I trust a shotgun from Turkey when we're talking 40K PSI.... What is the consensus?

[Texas by God]

My Turkish single shots are aluminum frame with steel bushings for the case head. I wouldn’t use a high pressure cartridge in them- the 7.62x25 Tokarevs might be ok.
Be sure that the shotgun that you choose has a small diameter firing pin like the H&R Topper/ NEF Pardner have.
Jedman knows more than Yoda on this subject; hopefully he’ll chime in.
One of the guns I’m hunting with this week is a Topper 12 gauge permanently converted to 44-40 WCF. It is a Fun Gun.


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[jdgabbard]

My Turkish single shots are aluminum frame with steel bushings for the case head. I wouldn’t use a high pressure cartridge in them- the 7.62x25 Tokarevs might be ok.
Be sure that the shotgun that you choose has a small diameter firing pin like the H&R Topper/ NEF Pardner have.
Jedman knows more than Yoda on this subject; hopefully he’ll chime in.
One of the guns I’m hunting with this week is a Topper 12 gauge permanently converted to 44-40 WCF. It is a Fun Gun.


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That’s good information. Thank you for chiming in. I had considered the Charles Daly 101, primarily because it doesn’t have an exposed hammer and firing pin (lessening the chance that it might turn into a projectile in the event of a ruptured primer). But this is also a Turkish gun from what I can tell.

I had also looked at the Stevens/Savage 301/M301. These are copies of the NEF SB1 from what I can tell. But made in China….

So we do know that NEF Toppers and Pardoner have small diameter Firing Pins? Is this universal across the various calibers?


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[M-Tecs]

1026 steel is one step up from 1018 mild steel.

https://blog.thepipingmart.com/metal...he-difference/

I haven't checked but die cost can be an issue for some of the oddball stuff. 7.62x25mm Tokarev are cheap

With the 30-357 you can use low cost 300 BO dies.
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...k-357-wildcat/

[jdgabbard]

1026 steel is one step up from 1018 mild steel.

https://blog.thepipingmart.com/metal...he-difference/

I haven't checked but die cost can be an issue for some of these.

With the 30-357 you can use low cost 300 BO dies.
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...k-357-wildcat/

I haven't compared the those two steels, but depending on the actual numbers I wouldn't be too surprised. When I compared against 4140 it looked to be quite different. But the strengths seemed to be better than mild steels. I don't see this being a forever option. But depending on how it holds up to cast loads it still seems like a viable option. Now that I look at it though, the listing doesn't state 1026. His website does reference 1026 on a few pages, but not on the 20ga 7.62x25 page. He lists it as Heavy Duty Steel Construction, which isn't very descriptive. On a few other pages for the barrel blanks he lists 4140. So to settle the matter I just sent him a message asking him point blank what alloy is used in THIS adapter. I'll report back when he responds.

[jdgabbard]

I received a response from Chad over at Chaszel.

We make most of the adapters from 1026. The 7.62x25 is all 1026

-Chad

That said, I did do some reading up on 1026. 1026 is a slight step up from 1018, but nowhere near 4140 in harness or fatigue strength. So with that in mind, these adapters do sound like they would eventually wear out. So middle of the road loads would probably be preferable.

[MT Gianni]

The accuracy doesn't seem to be there with the break action shotguns as it is with a Contender or Handi. If what you want is a 25 yard gun it might be acceptable.

[popper]

CVA single shot reamed for the badger?

[Larry Gibson]

I would have preferred they produce more 30 Carbine inserts in lieu of 7.62x25s. I've been watching their sight as I want a 20 ga insert in 30 Carbine for my Savage 24V.

[jdgabbard]

I would have preferred they produce more 30 Carbine inserts in lieu of 7.62x25s. I've been watching their sight as I want a 20 ga insert in 30 Carbine for my Savage 24V.

Larry, shoot him an email. As I understand it, a lot of his stock isn’t listed on the website.


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[Fitz]

If you are familiar with the modern sporting rifle, wilson combat offers a barrel chambered in 300 Hamr it shoots cast up to a 180gr bullet very accurately

[jdgabbard]

CVA single shot reamed for the badger?

I think there has been one or two that have build 30 Badgers on the CVA Scout. Unless you already own one though it may defeat one of the purposes. As the original idea was a cheap small cartridge built on a cheap shotgun/handi-rifle frame.

The accuracy doesn't seem to be there with the break action shotguns as it is with a Contender or Handi. If what you want is a 25 yard gun it might be acceptable.

That may be the case with those short shotgun inserts. But I've shot other longer inserts that were quite a bit more than a 25yd rifle. This one is an 18" barrel, and uses o-rings to stabilize itself. Sure it's not going to be a tack driver. But it'll do substantially better than you're suggesting with this. And quite a few others have built dedicated break action designs that are very accurate.

If you are familiar with the modern sporting rifle, wilson combat offers a barrel chambered in 300 Hamr it shoots cast up to a 180gr bullet very accurately

Yeah, I'm familiar with the 300 Hamr. It's still a far more potent round than the 30 Badger/Reece or 30 Tok. Though, it is easy enough to put an upper together for a quick swap. I guess one of the alluring aspects of the 30 Badger or 30 Tok single shots is the fact that it is a very minimal round for a rifle round, and is by it's nature in a single shot slowing down the round count. I can't help but think back to when I was a kid with only a single shot 22 rifle thinking about how much fun I had taking my time and working on my marksmanship. Sure my eyes are not what they were 30 years ago....

[technojock]

Why bother where there are plenty of good options for a .300 Blackout? I load my .300 Blackout Handi rifle with an 87g boolit with .3g of Red Dot to about 1000 FPS. It's only slightly louder than a .22 rim fire. I have loaded rounds with this boolit down to 2g of Red Dot without problems...

[dverna]

Why bother where there are plenty of good options for a .300 Blackout? I load my .300 Blackout Handi rifle with an 87g boolit with .3g of Red Dot to about 1000 FPS. It's only slightly louder than a .22 rim fire. I have loaded rounds with this boolit down to 2g of Red Dot without problems...

You make a good point.

I nearly went in for a .30 Badger about 10 years ago but the cost of doing it did make sense…at least for me. There were less costly ways to plink cheaply. Today, with primers in the $75/k+ area, the economics are even less attractive.

[jdgabbard]

The 300blk is a cool cartridge, but I don't see it as the do-all cartridge that many people do. In order to shoot heavy boolits a lot of times the twist on the barrel is so slow that it is a terrible performer for lighter boolits. Some of the barrels I've seen have had twists as low as 1/3. Of course this would be gun specific, and it's likely there are options with twists primarily dedicated to the 120-150gr range that could shoot 85-90gr boolits with decent accuracy out to 100yds. Building one is obviously cheaper; you really only need to put together an upper if you already have a AR. But like the 300 Hamr, the Badger/Reece or Tok still has a niche that it can fill for me.

[M-Tecs]

The really fast twist 3 twist you are referring to are for the 8.6 Blackout. For the 300 BO the longer slower subsonic heavier bullets require a 7 or 8 twist barrel with some going as fast as 5 twist. For lighter faster bullets some prefer the slower 10 or 12 twist barrels.

[Texas by God]

This is only my opinion after owning one for years; the .300 BO with a 1-7” twist(normal) is a great jacketed bullet round, not so good for supersonic cast- which is where I wanted to operate.
Making .30 Reese/Badger brass from .38/.357 brass would seem easier than the .300 from .223 procedure.


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[P Flados]

The quick and easy conversion of 38 SP brass was the thing that made the 30 Badger the most interesting to me.

I would think that the 7.62x25 insert could be converted to a Badger chamber (or something very close) without too much effort. The badger just has a longer neck and a rim.

Even if you stick with the 7.62x25 chamber, this would seem to be a fun thing to try.

[MT Gianni]

The quick and easy conversion of 38 SP brass was the thing that made the 30 Badger the most interesting to me.

I would think that the 7.62x25 insert could be converted to a Badger chamber (or something very close) without too much effort. The badger just has a longer neck and a rim.

Even if you stick with the 7.62x25 chamber, this would seem to be a fun thing to try.

Only disadvantage is accuracy out of a shotgun bbl. The adapters I shot out of contenders were ok but not the same.

[jdgabbard]

Yeah, it definitely wouldn't be as accurate as a dedicated barrel that was well made. But might not be completely terrible either. The big downside I see is the case dimensions near the base. The Tok is slightly larger than the 38spl if I'm not mistaken. But thats not a huge difference. Still might experience some split cases though with how thin 38spl is. Not so much of an issue as .223 brass that has been converted to 30 Tok.