sticking cases on funnel driving me crazy

[dearslayer]

Iv mentioned this subject in another thread but it's driving me nuts. If i'm only loading a few rounds it's not as big a deal but when doing a few hundred rounds it's more than annoying. Loading 9mm cast boolits on my Dillon XL750 press and honestly i feel like i'm gonna break the shell plate the cases stick so bad. Releasing the funnel results in a pretty big THUMP each and every time. To clarify I'm not using the expander that came with the press. That expander allowed my boolits to fall over resulting it shaved boolits. My cast boolits measure 0.3565 after powder coating and sizing. A vey generous member here on cast boolits actually made me a new expander that works fantastic. Expanding just enough to insert the boolit it sits on somewhat of a shelf created by the expander that allows the boolit to stand up straight to prevent shaving the lead when seating.
Some have mentioned that the cases are too clean but I've tried less clean cases, Hornady one shot, imperial wax on the expander tip and still the same result. I"ve also polished the heck out of the expander and still cases stick so bad that it makes reloading very un enjoyable.
Anyone else have this same issue??I'm at wits end. Can someone provide a link to an expander that will work for these boolits? I'm sure I'm leaving out necessary info so please ask.

[kevin c]

I don’t know if my problem was the same as yours, but the sticking on withdrawing the expanders sounds mighty familiar. I was using a custom stepped/M style die in 9mm for cast coated slugs sized to 0.357”.

The standard Dillon expander I had was way undersized, barely making contact with the sized case interior wall circumferentially. Only the belling section had solid contact to make a good all around flare, but that seemed to be most of the brass to steel contact area. But there wasn’t the body expansion I wanted.

The custom die has much more contact of the shank of the die with the case interior, has a lot more brass stretching to do to get to ~.357”, and therefore a lot more friction despite cautious polishing and lube application. It is doable, but not including the mouth flare in the same station; that’s when I’d get the bad die withdrawal sticking and “thump”.

Given I’m using a SDB with only 4 stations and limited range of stroke adjustment, my inelegant workaround is two passes through the press. The first sizes, decaps, primes and does the body expansion with the custom die set into the case only to but not engaging the belling section. The second run powder charges through the standard Dillon expander which is set deep enough to engage the belling section and flare the case mouth (case body already expanded with no further expansion from the undersized factory die) and ends with bullet seating and mouth flare removal.

It’s significantly more time consuming this way, but there’s no straining to retract the expander or thumping that scatters powder. AAMOF, the press action is much smoother and I believe the ammo is much more consistent.

[imashooter2]

Are you wet tumbling?

[dearslayer]

Are you wet tumbling?

Yes I am wet tumbling but I cut back the amount of time that I do, to about an hour. I use steel pins and armour all with wax. I also tried to dry tumble the same cases with wax added to the media after wet tumbling and yet I still have the same issue.

[gunther]

Remember having read on this forum that, to load .357 bullets in the 9mm, you need to be using CCI Blazer or Federal brass. Because they have the thinest necks out there. .You might try a few and see if it makes a difference.

[dearslayer]

Remember having read on this forum that, to load .357 bullets in the 9mm, you need to be using CCI Blazer or Federal brass. Because they have the thinest necks out there. .You might try a few and see if it makes a difference.

I've tried about 5-6 different brands and they all stick bad.

[dearslayer]

Up to now I just tolerated the thumping but last night I did just over 200 rounds and it became apparent that I can't keep loading this way. It's also hard on the press I believe. Especially the shell plate. Not to mention that after a short time it just starts to drive me crazy and I want to walk away from it. Expensive press to not be able to enjoy it.

[Ford SD]

To load 9mm I am using 2 expanders

but I have to explain
During off season I sort / clean deprime brass and bag it / no primer

when Im ready to load I use 2 expanders one in the deprime spot ( or any empty one) and a powder through expander

you can try the rcbs expander / noe / expander or a or if you have a 38/357 mag expander ( i have a metal spacer in mine to lower it ) add it for 9mm and take it out for 38/357

my powder thrower has a expander on it and if it sticks I do not like it so I am doing it this way, it is a lot easier to adjust the first one than to adjust the one on the powder thrower

[oldsman]

this is a very common issue with the mr bullet feeder die ,even worse wet tumble brass. Did you try lubed brass
There is another powder funnel die made by Mighty Armory 9mm funnel flare for 49.95 , they claim it dos not stick . Go to there website and check it out , I have not tried this
I been finding a lot more crimp primer brass so I size and case prep 9mm now on a mark7 driven cp2000 and have it setup with a lyman m die and I just pickup a new redding case neck die m-type that has the TI coating to try out , havent used it yet . and I load on a different press and this solved my sticking issue , but this wont help you on a 750 . Other option is load in two setups , set up a tool head to prep brass then switch tool heads to load . I can recommend tool head die setups if you want to go this route

[Postell]

A 40+ years Dillon loader here.
It seems to me that every time in the last 20 years that this problem pops up, its always with loading after wet tumbling.
This problem never happened before wet tumbling came to the scene.

[kevin c]

Just throwing some maybe off the wall ideas:

If mouth flare isn’t needed (I do it for stability on placing bevel based slugs on the case prior to seating and to avoid shaving [see below]), then maybe expanding to a lesser depth in the case will have less friction on withdrawing?

I understand the sizer brings the case down to under mouth diameter all the way down, working from the outside, and the expander brings it back up, working from the inside. If, after sizing, the case mouth diameter is well under the end point, there’s that much more resistance for the expander to deal with. This is a permanent and potentially sizer ruining alteration, but if folks can do it to bullet sizers, maybe the case sizer can also be opened up? In the case of carbide, this means using diamond paste.

I agree that thinner brass helps. I’ve measured up to a thousandth difference, which translates into 0.002” less internal diameter after sizing. I regularly use Federal 9x19 brass with my slugs sized to 0.357” just for this reason.

If you do need to flare the case mouth, it might help to try the two pass method i and others described before.

There’s a small chance there’s an alignment or tolerance issue. Well made machines have working tolerances designed in, but if pushed to or beyond limits (including use of aftermarket parts), functionality can take a big hit. I found that my own custom die could only be used within certain depth of expansion settings or the press would bind (really tough to change on the SDB, but that’s another story). I also found that one reason I was getting bullets shaved is that I had a minor misalignment between the bullet on the case in the shell holder and the seating stem above it, not an issue with jacketed or with cast being seated in mouth flared cases, but a mess with minimally flared cases and lead.

[Carrier]

I just spray a little one shot case lube on cases and that does away with cases sticking on the ptx.

[G W Wade]

One forum discussed this a while ago. Their solution was to dry tumble with dirty media. Do not understand why this could be better that lube. Your mileage may vary. GW

[Carrier]

One forum discussed this a while ago. Their solution was to dry tumble with dirty media. Do not understand why this could be better that lube. Your mileage may vary. GW

One shot much easier and cleaner.

[dearslayer]

One shot much easier and cleaner.

Ive tried the One Shot as well and strangely it makes zero difference. I can't lessen the flare because I then get shaving of the boolit. I've tried all possibilities that I can think of other than buying a new expander. The only problem with that is because I live in Canada the shipping cost usually exceeds the value of the product. Last I checked NOE for an expander it would cost $48 USD to ship a $28 product. All told it would be over $100 CDN. !!

[country gent]

How smooth is the expander stem and working surfaces, To smooth can cause drag as can to rough. To smooth dosnt hold any lube and to rough the case grabs on it. Polish lines around the circumference of the expander will grab more than with the expander. Another is a little draft on the stem helps it to release. Just a .001 or so smaller at the end makes a big difference. Bass springs back and a straight sided expander it drags the full length a little taper an it releases easier.

[dearslayer]

How smooth is the expander stem and working surfaces, To smooth can cause drag as can to rough. To smooth dosnt hold any lube and to rough the case grabs on it. Polish lines around the circumference of the expander will grab more than with the expander. Another is a little draft on the stem helps it to release. Just a .001 or so smaller at the end makes a big difference. Bass springs back and a straight sided expander it drags the full length a little taper an it releases easier.

Ive polished it a few time because I thought smoother was better. I've even tried to sand a small taper at the end of the top step on the expander and still no luck. I may try ordering the expander from Mighty Armory to see if that will work. I'm out of options at this point.

[45_Colt]

A crazy thought, but maybe an airlock? That is, when the funnel & powder is inserted into the brass the air is pushed out.

Then upon withdrawing the funnel air needs to get back in. Otherwise a small vacuum is created. To test for this run a few pieces of brass minus the primer (with an empty powder measure). See if that makes a difference.

The other thought I had was work hardened brass. Anneal the tops of a few cases and run those through as test dummy rounds.

45Colt

[M-Tecs]

Iv mentioned this subject in another thread but it's driving me nuts. If i'm only loading a few rounds it's not as big a deal but when doing a few hundred rounds it's more than annoying. Loading 9mm cast boolits on my Dillon XL750 press and honestly i feel like i'm gonna break the shell plate the cases stick so bad. Releasing the funnel results in a pretty big THUMP each and every time. To clarify I'm not using the expander that came with the press. That expander allowed my boolits to fall over resulting it shaved boolits. My cast boolits measure 0.3565 after powder coating and sizing. A vey generous member here on cast boolits actually made me a new expander that works fantastic. Expanding just enough to insert the boolit it sits on somewhat of a shelf created by the expander that allows the boolit to stand up straight to prevent shaving the lead when seating.
Some have mentioned that the cases are too clean but I've tried less clean cases, Hornady one shot, imperial wax on the expander tip and still the same result. I"ve also polished the heck out of the expander and still cases stick so bad that it makes reloading very un enjoyable.
Anyone else have this same issue??I'm at wits end. Can someone provide a link to an expander that will work for these boolits? I'm sure I'm leaving out necessary info so please ask.

Did the Dillon powder funnel expander have the same issues? Are you using a bullet feeder?

[dearslayer]

Did the Dillon powder funnel expander have the same issues? Are you using a bullet feeder?

Yes it did. It also allowed the boolit to lean over which made seating difficult and shaving of the lead. No I'm not using a bullet feeder.