Prayers answered? KAK .17-5.56

[M-Tecs]

I'm glad you are enjoying the difference between need and want. good for you. really enjoy your threads. I have no dog in this hunt, but wondered if annealing the cases would reduce the loss rate. just a thought.

You never know unless you try. That being said past experience indicates neck annealing increases the likelihood of shoulder collapses.

[M-Tecs]

Looking forward to seeing how the gun/round shoots!!

Here is an old thread that might be of interest. It talks about the .17 Rem but it has good information.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...from-223-brass

I often wonder why the .17 Rem was not very successful. Today, factory ammunition is stupid expensive, but having a cheap parent case makes it much like your new adventure...very affordable.

Can't speak for others but for me it was fouling issues, bullets not expanding at times and the joys of trying to drop stick powders into a 17 Cal neck. I love my 17 Mach II and 17 HMR's. I am glad my 17 Rems are gone.

[Wolfdog91]

So some updates. Was out with the gf and her friend in Hammond ( they love book stores) and got a notification that my order of bullet from Midway was delayed ( I get back on the boat soon so that wasn't going to do) and my order from powder valley was the same sooo had to try to find some bullets . Called the bass pro 20min away front eh book store becithe website Sadie they had some on sale. Welp the guy ( great customer service,shout out to the Hammond Bass pro) checked and said they were soon the shelf and where most likely ghost numbers , as somones who's worked in modern retail, well I completely understand. Looked around and there's a small reloading shop in baton rouge, 40min away called and they said they had one box of 15.5 GR NTX. Well just so happens there's a Barnes and Noble ten min from there sooooo the lady and her friend where game
Great little shop cool old guys running it too. May or may not have went back in to try and buy powder and her follow me in and well it was pretty funny let's just say that

Well on or way home we had go by the exit to the bass pro I called. Wifey says let's go look at some achery stuff because my nephew is getting into achery for boy scouts and she wants to try. Well we go in and idk something tell me to go take a look in the reloading isle, and LOW N BEHOLD!!!



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[Wolfdog91]

So let's talk about case forming again
tried what a friend on another said about taking the decapping pin out and my crush case amount went way more down which when you think about it it makes sense. More downwards force coming down on that neck as you try and shove it up and over that expander ball and all that, and I de cap everything Separate on a universal decapper anyhow. Interesting little deal reading has with knurled end here. Slips right in the case since it's smaller then the expander ball but still can see something possibly getting hung up

And just our if curiosity wants to see what the difference would be in one that that formed with the pin vs if I used the pin after forming annnnd noting noticable
And here's a pic of the whole build. Only think I'm missing is the dust cover which I just keep forgetting to get ordered lol.nwanna get a funny custom on though. But yeah just ripped the bcg out of my .223 while spr build and slapped it in its lower because that lower is so nice to shoot with the wide trigger and the luth mba fully adjustable stock


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[Wolfdog91]

So loaded up some of the 20gr vmax's per KAK's load data. Did go and check my shoulder bumps and all that and everything chambers super easy via me pushing ithe bcg in with my thumb.

Using CFE .223.... because it was the cheapest thing they had in the self that KAK had on there load data lol



Will say.....I remeber why I don't like this bally flaky type powder very much , good ole statics gonna get one of them face metal set one day. Though it's pretty easy to fix this just tap the bottom of the car if the table and it all goes in

Ten rounds for initial " will this blow up in my face " and getting on target. Think these are supposed to be at 3800 something fps. And that's a starting load.



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[Wolfdog91]

Good little bit of mag space as well to play with but apparently.17cals like to be jumped apparently so we will see. I usually do every thing custom but I wanna test KAK's claims of this being simple and easy to get to work


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[Wolfdog91]

Okie dokie got to do some shooting! New did make one or two little little mistakes involving trimming but after pulling some bullets got that fixed.

So the set up ( for the first then shots, more and more I'm just not enjoying shooting off of a front rest , idk just not my thing)
Prone , Caldwell rock BR front rest , magneto speed bayonet Chronograph. My heavy leather rear bag, 63 degrees out no wind


So first ten rounds didn't want to read or where reading some crazy numbers but j bore sighted and sent the first five in @50yd to make sure I was on paper. Also worked as a function test
And some screen shots I took in order of the first shot breaking

So looking like a out 2 o'clock ejection with means a few things according to this


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[Wolfdog91]

Might play with something down the line but idk over gasses AR's are apparently not uncommon at all , might give her and adjustable gas block down the line. Also gotta say, this thing has like no recoil and I think I might start going the thread protector route.
Anyhow everything functioned perfect. 100yd group was ..meh but very rarely I've had a beginning load start great. Also might have just been me trying to get on a new build

Now the next loads shot better but started getting some problems , honestly the only problem I had with the 26gr load was the rounds weren't picking up from the mag. Walked inside switched mags problem solved. Was still having issues with the economy picking up these little bullets so only two sensible velocities

Now according to KAK's load data 26.3 gr is supposed to be the optimal load ( also the top end load for the powder bullet combo) this was where j was getting problems though. The main on being two of these.

Now at first I wasn't sure what to think . Did the whole SPORTS thing , drop the mag ,yadda yadda , and nother the bcg just would not grab the case, weird, well went inside grabbed a cleaning rod and a little tap tap and it came right out. But ....

Believe it or not but I think this is the first time I've had this happen to me in reloading , so very interesting experience . But easy fix . That happened twice but only on this load so ..neat
anyhow shot pretty decent. A adjusted the scope too low on the first shot and hit below the target hence only 4th



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[Wolfdog91]

back at the bench not what I have fire formed brass I can finally look at some stuff I need
Left if freshly formed the right is fire formed

And some head space measurement. Again I Formed this brass per the companies instructions

Vs fire formed


So yeaaahhh I've been bumping these back a whole 0.008 vs... you know like the 0.003 I really need

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[Wolfdog91]

So did some seating depth testing. Seated them a bit long and went back to 26.0 GR of CFE .223 . Also for craps and giggles threw that chicom scope on and gotta say, other then the really short eye relief, ITS NOT BAD !
Next to one of my 5.56 loads

And today's set up

I kept the same powder chard though all of these .....really not liking that S-D but hay


And the target the group on the right was some brass that was kinda messed up and I was trying to see if I could fireform it out.


As usual I understand up dripping one out the group.

But yeah heres 50 rd of brass , the one s with the primers up are the ones with messed up whatever

O and look what came in the mail !




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[Wolfdog91]

So spend a few hours today freezing my butt of messing with these 25gr's and BLC-2 . Using .17-223 load data from hodgdons website and .....egh. better SD but lower velocity and the groups where...meh , like 1.5


Wanted to hunt a little to night so went and loaded up more 20gainers over 26gr of CFE .223 and got the NV hooked up




Word of advice double check with one **** zero deal always works pretty good but usually needs a little tweak one way or another



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[danmat]

I like it!!!
When I was young I spent my money on Wine, Women, Song & Guns, wasted the rest.
Dan

[rintinglen]

The worst copper fouling I ever saw was in the barrel of a 17 Remington model 700 back around 1979. My buddy Warren bought one and in less than 200 rounds he had a mess. In those days, 17 caliber cleaning rods were scarce and brushes hard to come by. Plugged the bore and filled it with Hoppe's No.9 and let it set over night, with little or no effect. We wore out a couple of brushes scrubbing copper out, took forever to to get a clean patch. I decided to stay with my .222. I will say that 17 when clean would shoot well and would blow up a ground squirrel at 150 yards or less.

[725]

Very interesting report. Keep 'em coming!

[Wolfdog91]

Hell no luck night hunting , cold had them locked up ,southern critters in cold snaps just don't seem to move much during , before and after yes during the whole 2-4 days it's frozen up, nah.
Tried some day time stands. Find a perfect setup aannnnnd my battery died

Got to stalk up on this little guy and take some pics though, seen more of them this year then ever before


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[Wolfdog91]

So decided to give annealing a try
Now just to be clear why I didnt to begin with. KAK has stated that they made this up to be a simple deal for gus wanting to get into a .17cal centerfire. In their videos they stated all you need to do to convert brass is a single run into the resizing die. I wanted to test those claims. If I just went and ran buckwild on some more advanced stuff then what would just kinda nullify that . It's like if I company said their after market engine will fit perfectly in a car but before you even tired to test fit you start cutting out the engine bay to make room or something. If that makes sense . Now according to them you want once fired brass because it's work hardened for initial forming. They said they initially tried annealing their brass but it resulted in too many crushed necks due to the soft annealed brass collapsing. And I can post a link to the video where they explain this if anyone wants.

Ok anyhow the test. Not the most scientific, took 20rd of brass from the same bag I've been working with. It's all been de capped cleaned ect . All same head stamp 23 Lake city 5.56. Made sure to chey they all had good looking case mouth and the like.
As far as the annealing just some Podunk flame change annealing with a 3/8's deep socket on a drill and a propane and torch. Angle isn't the best but trying to hit just that neck shoulder junction like your supposed to. Would have used my 750 tempilaq but I couldn't open the jar at all, and flame change always seems to work decent.

So our if the 20 , ten where annealed ten where not .

Interesting enough all the annealed ones seemed to have this same mark/pattern on them

So the it's the same as it's always been since I stared this . No de capping die, shoulder getting bumped back to 1.450". Hand lubing each one individually with imperial sizing wax

So our if the ten in annealed ones I got one crush

And the annealed ..... Well


All ten annealed ones where crushed , not one properly converted case....so yeahhhh, look like KAK was right with this one lol. Will be ordering a .20 cal due soon though as a step die.just gotta see what will work best , looking at possibly a .204 Ruger die or a .20 practical. Well see


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[dverna]

Good test Wolf. Proves the point.

Your "podunk" anneal system is fine. Don't think that was the issue.

[Wolfdog91]

So got called and told my boat is still in the ship yard and I don't have to leave out for a bit longer so since most every thing else is done figured I'd play with some loads again would go out an try and make a stand but I'm at like 15-0 so egh.
Anyhow after reading alot about 17-.223 most people got that data from .17 rem data. Wanted to try and use some kinda stick powder to hopefully get some better S-D's I don't like big velocity differences. So was trying to avoid .17 rem data since the cases are a bit different. Was able to find some 17-223 data on hodgdons webs site. They have a online reloading data base deal . They had some for 4895 which I just so happen to have picked up a can a few months back
Not going to lie , a lot of the time with cast I'll just kinda say yolo and try something off the books if it follows a few parameters but when I'm running this fast ....yeaaaahhh no.


I went ahead and went a bit hight then starting just because those loads always run slower in a gas gun and these 17's don't seem to like goin slow.

Trying the 25's again because I now have 3 100rd boxes of them now that all my orders arrived. These are a it longs so figured I'd try doing some seating with them. Found the same point and backed off 0.004" they go in easy and no movement from being mag loaded.


I do need to get some new low capacity mags , these two 20rd I have are mostly plastic and are wearing out . Don't wanna hold the bold open on the last round out. My metal 30rd will but I hate walking around with those things in the gun .



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[Wolfdog91]

Same set up as the last few days same brass ejection.
And the targets , bit better then the last bunch of 25gr loads. That 4895 going some good velocities but the group are a bit meh.





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[MarkP]

Take the expander ball out of the die when forming the case. Trim and square up the mouth, anneal the neck and run it thru the die with the expander ball in place. I have 17 Hornets and a 17-222 and have made several hundred this way.