The First Earth Age, The Rebellion, The Flood

[Good Cheer]

Jude 1:6
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

I am struggling with the difference between Fallen angels and demons... Are they not one in the same?

Good morning.
For a quick answer, as a single presenter Dr. Heiser explained things pretty well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YzKi26pPsY

[ioon44]

Dr. Heiser's teachings have brought a lot of upstanding for me.

[ioon44]

I've often thought of some of the folks up in DC like that.

We have no idea how bad the spiritual darkness is in DC.

[Good Cheer]

We have no idea how bad the spiritual darkness is in DC.

And how long it's been that way.

[ioon44]

Maby since the politicians arrived.

[pmer]

So in chapter 6 of Genisis the sons of God are the blood of Adam? God saves a remnant of His intended creation through the flood and picks up where He left off with Abraham of Ur and sends him to the promised land?
Abel is gone but the sons of Cain are/is the corruption that God is trying to extinguish?

I've never understood it this way before but it seems to make sense to me and I'm not so stuck on the "giant" rabbit hole this way either.
Sorry about this being so short but I'm not trying to write a paper.

So this would seem to fit in with the entire context of both the old and new tesament?

Thanks for opening this perspective and it's new to me but I always wasn't very sure about what I was supposed to pickup from flood.

[Good Cheer]

Yo pmer.
Near as I can tell, no, they're not men.
Rather than repeat what I've learned from teachers over the years I'll post some of what Heiser had to say. If you're interested in it there's a lot of his teaching material available on the internet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQQfCZfNtZY

[ioon44]

So in chapter 6 of Genisis the sons of God are the blood of Adam? God saves a remnant of His intended creation through the flood and picks up where He left off with Abraham of Ur and sends him to the promised land?
Abel is gone but the sons of Cain are/is the corruption that God is trying to extinguish?

I've never understood it this way before but it seems to make sense to me and I'm not so stuck on the "giant" rabbit hole this way either.
Sorry about this being so short but I'm not trying to write a paper.

So this would seem to fit in with the entire context of both the old and new tesament?

Thanks for opening this perspective and it's new to me but I always wasn't very sure about what I was supposed to pickup from flood.

Sons of God
https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/...p0/t_conc_6002

[pmer]

Yo pmer.
Near as I can tell, no, they're not men.
Rather than repeat what I've learned from teachers over the years I'll post some of what Heiser had to say. If you're interested in it there's a lot of his teaching material available on the internet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQQfCZfNtZY

Your're sure the sons of God and daughters of men aren't describing the challenges of the up coming Mosaic Covenant and how God chooses to deal with the sin of man?

[Good Cheer]

Your're sure the sons of God and daughters of men aren't describing the challenges of the up coming Mosaic Covenant and how God chooses to deal with the sin of man?

So far I'm satisfied that the scholars and teachers that say scripture is using the descriptor to call out some created non-human beings are correct.

[Alabama358]

So in chapter 6 of Genisis the sons of God are the blood of Adam? God saves a remnant of His intended creation through the flood and picks up where He left off with Abraham of Ur and sends him to the promised land?
Abel is gone but the sons of Cain are/is the corruption that God is trying to extinguish?

I've never understood it this way before but it seems to make sense to me and I'm not so stuck on the "giant" rabbit hole this way either.
Sorry about this being so short but I'm not trying to write a paper.

So this would seem to fit in with the entire context of both the old and new tesament?

Thanks for opening this perspective and it's new to me but I always wasn't very sure about what I was supposed to pickup from flood.

Pmer
I think you are on the right track...

The way I read it, using the Bible & Holy spirit as my reference and not Youtube, Wikipedia, Podcast, books of fiction or flavor of the month scholars so called.

The "Daughters of men" spoken of in Genesis 6 are the woman folk born out of the Cane bloodline.
The "Sons of God" spoken of in Genesis 6 are Sons of Seth Adam's 3rd son. A God loving God fearing righteous people.

When in doubt... let scripture sort it out (that would make a good T-shirt lol)

We are lucky enough to have the New Testament to help connect the dots in the old Testament.
So what does the New Testament actually say about who are the Sons of God are?

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
(People that have "received him"... who? Christ... born again folks are the Sons of God. It is also note worthy that it says to them was given the power to BECOME sons of God. So just being born human does not get you there you must be saved)

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
(indwelled with the Holy Spirit, saved folks... Sons of God)

1 John 3:1-2
1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
(This actually draws a distinction between humans that are not saved "The World" and those that are saved "the Sons of God" similar to Genesis 6 the "daughters of men" representing "the world" the "children of Seth" representing the saved or the Sons of God")
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
(Again, Saved folks being "The Sons of God")

Philippians 2:14-15
14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
(Again, Saved folks being "The Sons of God")


Christ nor his disciples ever taught that Demons/fallen/rebellious/any other unnatural beings EVER came down and bread with human woman to create a hybrid evil human nor did his disciples.

The Old Testament doesn't teach it
The New Testament doesn't teach it
Christ didn't teach it
Christ Disciples didn't teach it

Youtube teaches it
Bloggers teach it
Book writers teach it
Modern Scholars so called teach it

Take your pick

[ioon44]

Pmer
I think you are on the right track...

The way I read it, using the Bible & Holy spirit as my reference and not Youtube, Wikipedia, Podcast, books of fiction or flavor of the month scholars so called.

The "Daughters of men" spoken of in Genesis 6 are the woman folk born out of the Cane bloodline.
The "Sons of God" spoken of in Genesis 6 are Sons of Seth Adam's 3rd son. A God loving God fearing righteous people.

When in doubt... let scripture sort it out (that would make a good T-shirt lol)

We are lucky enough to have the New Testament to help connect the dots in the old Testament.
So what does the New Testament actually say about who are the Sons of God are?

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
(People that have "received him"... who? Christ... born again folks are the Sons of God. It is also note worthy that it says to them was given the power to BECOME sons of God. So just being born human does not get you there you must be saved)

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
(indwelled with the Holy Spirit, saved folks... Sons of God)

1 John 3:1-2
1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
(This actually draws a distinction between humans that are not saved "The World" and those that are saved "the Sons of God" similar to Genesis 6 the "daughters of men" representing "the world" the "children of Seth" representing the saved or the Sons of God")
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
(Again, Saved folks being "The Sons of God")

Philippians 2:14-15
14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
(Again, Saved folks being "The Sons of God")


Christ nor his disciples ever taught that Demons/fallen/rebellious/any other unnatural beings EVER came down and bread with human woman to create a hybrid evil human nor did his disciples.

The Old Testament doesn't teach it
The New Testament doesn't teach it
Christ didn't teach it
Christ Disciples didn't teach it

Youtube teaches it
Bloggers teach it
Book writers teach it
Modern Scholars so called teach it

Take your pick

Sons of God
https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/...p0/t_conc_6002

[Alabama358]

Sons of God
https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/...p0/t_conc_6002

Ioon44,
I see that you post this link on this subject quite a bit, but it is a broken link and comes up as an error.
Is there a certain Book, chapter and verse that you are trying to point to?

[pmer]

That Blueletterbible.org is very helpful.

Good Cheer,
So when I consider theories of creation verses evolution the creationist maintains that there are no solid verifiable reproductive activities of differing species producing viable offspring. How can the theory of creation survive the flood if an evolutionary tactic of interspecies reproduction is thought to be biblical?

[pmer]

Ioon44,
I see that you post this link on this subject quite a bit, but it is a broken link and comes up as an error.
Is there a certain Book, chapter and verse that you are trying to point to?

Try a link from another post the last one didn't work for me either.

[Good Cheer]

That Blueletterbible.org is very helpful.

Good Cheer,
So when I consider theories of creation verses evolution the creationist maintains that there are no solid verifiable reproductive activities of differing species producing viable offspring. How can the theory of creation survive the flood if an evolutionary tactic of interspecies reproduction is thought to be biblical?

pmer, I probably won't enjoy the answer but why are you asking me?
As far as I'm concerned we are living within the continual process that exists and placing the present day theories of evolution and creation in juxtaposition is a specious* beginning of babel.


*For going on three decades I've suspected the creationist versus evolution arguing is being actively employed as a part of a control mechanism to prevent people from perceiving not only the divinely managed reality they live within but what they themselves are, spirit beings taking a brief trip in a meat suit.

[Good Cheer]

PS,
About the sons of men, I think Bullinger nailed it in the appendices to his 1922 Companion Bible edition of the King James.
Various scholars have turned up more to add to what Bullinger recorded but eh, Bullinger did a very good job.
But as always, don't just take the word of any man and run with it. Do your own research because you are responsible for what you believe.

[pmer]

If you have add to the word or take away from the word for an assumption to make sense it probably won't stand up to the foundation of scripture. ioon44's answers are provided with supporting chapter and verse. Others mention books rejected by Hebrew and Christian scholars thought to introduce paganism into Christian teachings.

Evolution is a powerful and effective attack on not just our faith that was first taken on by Charles Spurgeon in England. I'm sure Bullinger is a respectable figure in history.

[ioon44]

I just used the link from my post #88 to pull the page, I don't know why the latter links don't work.
Sons of God
https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/...p0/t_conc_6002



Blueletterbible.org
Gen 6:2
That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

Go to blueletterbible.org then search Gen 6:2 then go to TOOLS and pull up INTERLINEAR and it tells you who the Sons of God are from the original language.

Sons of God in Gen6:2 is not the same Sons of God John 1:12, Romans 8:14, one needs to look at the original language to understand who is being referred to everything else is just speculation.

[Good Cheer]

If you have add to the word or take away from the word for an assumption to make sense it probably won't stand up to the foundation of scripture. ioon44's answers are provided with supporting chapter and verse. Others mention books rejected by Hebrew and Christian scholars thought to introduce paganism into Christian teachings.

Evolution is a powerful and effective attack on not just our faith that was first taken on by Charles Spurgeon in England. I'm sure Bullinger is a respectable figure in history.

By all means, study chapter and verse not failing (as is a common practice) to learn what was meant in the vernacular of the time. That way you won't have to assume.

As concerns how the theory of evolution has been used, it is only an effective attack on a weakened understanding of scripture. Look at all of our fellow Christians who have been willing to spout the claims that the Earth is only six thousand years old. What a grand example of failing to study!