Holy War Du Jour

[Good Cheer]

Have you examined scripture to satisfy yourself whether or not the present holy war fits into scriptural prophecy?

[JimB..]

Why?

The Lord knew of it, as He knew of all things to come. Are you trying to deduce if He included it in some way in the scriptures, and if so I ask why?

I often feel that we make religion too hard, that we study it as if the minute details and our interpretation of events are critically important and even prophetic. Religion as a hobby that we immerse ourselves in and then show off with pride.

You’ll need to decide if this message is sponsored by the Lord or the devil, it’s just what came to mind in response to your query.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

But he did include much prophesy about the End Times in the scriptures, and does nothing without a reason. The prophecies are there as a warning of things to come, to allow physical and spiritual preparation.

Personally, although I can not say that this war is the end war, it certainly has the earmarks of being able to morph into that. There is great potential for it to widen, first into a regional war, then into a world war involving nuclear weapons. Should that happen, what ever is left will very much resemble the prophecies of The Revelation.

DG

[Alabama358]

Why?

The Lord knew of it, as He knew of all things to come. Are you trying to deduce if He included it in some way in the scriptures, and if so I ask why?

I often feel that we make religion too hard, that we study it as if the minute details and our interpretation of events are critically important and even prophetic. Religion as a hobby that we immerse ourselves in and then show off with pride.

You’ll need to decide if this message is sponsored by the Lord or the devil, it’s just what came to mind in response to your query.

Matthew 24:42-43
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

Mark 13:33
33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.

Luke 12:37-38
37 Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.
38 And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants.

Luke 21:36
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

The Parable of the fig tree...
The Parable of the 10 Virgins...
... and many other examples

I am not sure how folks studying the minute details of scripture, being watchful and trying to be mindful of current day events with regards to prophecy is being prideful.
In fact I think it is more of an act of love and obedience to the Lord and less a turning study in to a prideful hobby.

Of course it is possible that I misunderstood your post...and in that case let me apologize in advance

[Alabama358]

But he did include much prophesy about the End Times in the scriptures, and does nothing without a reason. The prophecies are there as a warning of things to come, to allow physical and spiritual preparation.

Personally, although I can not say that this war is the end war, it certainly has the earmarks of being able to morph into that. There is great potential for it to widen, first into a regional war, then into a world war involving nuclear weapons. Should that happen, what ever is left will very much resemble the prophecies of The Revelation.

DG

Agree!
I don't think current day events are going to blow over in a week or two and have extreme potential to get ugly very quick.
Iran and the straights of Hormuz are going to get interesting soon

[ioon44]

I would say it fits here. We won't what it means until we see it in our rearview mirror.


Matthew 24
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumors of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

[.429&H110]

Why would you write "present holy war"?
"Manunkind" has always killed over "stuff", the divine right of kings to collect taxes.
Man has always disputed boundaries because of coveting.
Coveting, taking what you see that isn't yours, is sin.
The Book says the wages of sin is death.

You really cannot have a holy war among men because
"none are righteous, no, not one"
Nothing holy about war, the winner writes the history.
Was once a Holy Roman Empire, now gone, wasn't much holy about it, and they still can't agree on the boundaries.

There will always be men who feel good, by making you feel bad.
And until Satan gets toasted, his lies still corrupt.

[Good Cheer]

It's the present holy war because it's the one happening right now.

[JimB..]

Matthew 24:42-43
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

Mark 13:33
33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.

Luke 12:37-38
37 Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.
38 And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants.

Luke 21:36
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

The Parable of the fig tree...
The Parable of the 10 Virgins...
... and many other examples

I am not sure how folks studying the minute details of scripture, being watchful and trying to be mindful of current day events with regards to prophecy is being prideful.
In fact I think it is more of an act of love and obedience to the Lord and less a turning study in to a prideful hobby.

Of course it is possible that I misunderstood your post...and in that case let me apologize in advance

Thank you for your thoughtful response.

Watch and watchful are words with various meanings. It feels to me that many choose to read it as “look” while I read it more as to be always prepared for an event the timing of which I can not predict.

In the verse from Matthew, while it could mean “watch, so you can prepare when the time is near” I think it more likely means “be watchful of your own actions and beliefs at all times, for you do not know when the time will come.”

Much the same for the verse from Mark.

The verse from Luke 12 is interesting in that I don’t believe it to be about watching at all, rather about servants doing their jobs without fail. It instructs us not to try to guess or attempt to determine the time of the master’s return, but rather to be faithful servants ready for His return at all times.

The verse from Luke 21 says to watch, but I believe it means to watch yourself, consistent with my comments above.

In short, I don’t believe that “watch” means “look” and especially not “anticipate” or “predict.”

Sorry if this comes across poorly. I know for myself that if I knew with absolute certainty the time of His return it would be tempting to behave poorly today and plan to be better tomorrow…an approach that is of course ill-advised. Trying to figure out where we are on a timeline would create all risk and no reward for me; others will likely consider it differently.

These discussions are always better in person, and with coffee and pastry.

[justindad]

I’m comparing today’s events to biblical prophecy. I think it’s fascinating and I won’t be surprised if my children are taken by the rapture, even I am taken in the rapture. However, the first time a mark on your right hand being required for purchases doesn’t have to the THE mark on your right hand. I think it is impossible to know with confidence, but that just makes it all the more fascinating.

[Thundarstick]

Y'all do realize that not ONE generation since Daniel's prophecies where pinned, has past by without apocalyptic teachings?

It needs repeating! There is no such thing as a Holy War! ALL War is spawned by evil!

I find it amusing that all apocalyptic predictions and prophecies have a 100% failure rate. For myself, I'd rather focus on Christ, peace, love, and how I live my life. I also find it a faithless endeavor to try and predict the end, when Christ himself PLAINLY stated "only the Father knows the hour". I guess it's convenient to ignore his teaching??

[Alabama358]

In the verse from Matthew, while it could mean “watch, so you can prepare when the time is near” I think it more likely means “be watchful of your own actions and beliefs at all times, for you do not know when the time will come.”

I think that it is important to keep the Olivet Discourse (Matthew24, Mark13, Luke21) sermon in context... The disciples came to him in private and ask specifically "Tell us When" and what "Shall be the Sign" of your coming and the end of the world. They wanted the Details!

So...
"When" as in looking for a time frame
"What will be the Signs of thy coming" what should we look for? Obviously they are looking for signs in anticipation of his return.

Matthew 24:3
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Considering that the founding members of "the church" went to Christ seeking the specific details of the end times... For which he provided them the playbook right up to and including his return in the clouds and the collection of his elect (that is us)...
I personally think that Olivet Discourse is the most complete and comprehensive scripture regarding end times.
He even tells them that if they were paying attention to the sermon he just preached their question of when was answered (not the hour or day)
Matthew 24:33
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

These discussions are always better in person, and with coffee and pastry.

I totally agree... A strong mug of coffee, a fresh apple fritter the size of a small pie, fellowshipping with Brethren is truly a blessing and about as good as it gets for sorting out scripture.

I hope I didn't get to long-winded

[JimB..]

I think that it is important to keep the Olivet Discourse (Matthew24, Mark13, Luke21) sermon in context... The disciples came to him in private and ask specifically "Tell us When" and what "Shall be the Sign" of your coming and the end of the world. They wanted the Details!

So...
"When" as in looking for a time frame
"What will be the Signs of thy coming" what should we look for? Obviously they are looking for signs in anticipation of his return.

Matthew 24:3
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Considering that the founding members of "the church" went to Christ seeking the specific details of the end times... For which he provided them the playbook right up to and including his return in the clouds and the collection of his elect (that is us)...
I personally think that Olivet Discourse is the most complete and comprehensive scripture regarding end times.
He even tells them that if they were paying attention to the sermon he just preached their question of when was answered (not the hour or day)
Matthew 24:33
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.




I totally agree... A strong mug of coffee, a fresh apple fritter the size of a small pie, fellowshipping with Brethren is truly a blessing and about as good as it gets for sorting out scripture.

I hope I didn't get to long-winded

Not long-winded at all, I appreciate the detail.

[Good Cheer]

There is no such thing as a Holy War! ALL War is spawned by evil!

It is people who call wars to be "holy war".

[dverna]

Of course it is a holy war. Who wants to die for an unholy war?

[Winger Ed.]

Whenever you go to war, for whatever reason- you have to demonize your enemy,
and it's very important that you have God on your side.
When both sides have God on their side, one group has to prove their God is better than the other side's.

It seems that most of the people in the Middle East aren't exactly known for their forward thinking.
With that, and since their whole life and society/culture revolves around their religious beliefs-
the best way to motivate them is having them believe they are doing God's work by fighting a holy war.