Primer cup manufacturing from .017 thick galvanized steel

[MUSTANG]

The galvanized portion is Zink. (Finally found a use for that stuff!) It may provide some protection to the steel in the cup from chemical reaction associated with various Primer Compound Chemicals.

[MUSTANG]

So I ordered a Brass 0.016 inch thick sheet from Amazon. Arrived yesterday evening. Could not wait; so early this morning opened it up and it measured 0.016 thick as advertised. So not to setting up the Arbor Press.

I only did two punches in the brass sheet. Had the same abysmal failure as the 0.014 Aluminum flashing from Ameri-Max (I use that for making gas checks). The Sharp Shooter die cut a small disk from each of the two punches. The area that would have been the Primer Cup Sidewalls; is not embedded in the cutting/shaping post in the die.

I'll have to dig it out with a Dental tool it looks like. Hopefully that will work - not too concerned about a dental pick scratching the Cutter post as it seems to be well hardened. Have to come up with somewhere to use the remaining 99.999% of the brass sheet left over. Oh well; only $4.98 down the drain.

Guess I'll be looking for some source for 0.017 thick brass (or possibly 0.018?) in the next few months. In the mean time; once this persistent cough goes away - I will head to the Range to do some testing on the 0.017 thick Galvanized Steel Primer Cups/Primers I made up.

[TribunusSanGeorgii]

Someone needs to make a primer cup maker for berdan sized primers, especially the larger x54r type size...

Although I do keep playing around in my head if a .224 gas check would work for those...

[justindad]

Not all brass is the same. IIRC, cartridge case brass is called C4. Using the wrong grade of brass may be the root cause of your failure. Or, heat treating may be needed.
*
https://copper.org/applications/indu...0than%20copper.

[MUSTANG]

I test fired ten primer cups made with 0.017 Inch thick Galvanized steel toady. They were manufactured using my P4-3 mixture (See Post #16 at https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...01#post5642701 ).

Although I have not fired any loaded rounds with these Primer Cups yet; I think there are some observations to be made. Here is a picture of the Primer cups test fired; still in the brass cases; click on picture to enlarge:



All the Cups show a “SOLID INDENTATION”. One area of interest/concern is that all primer cups were firmly seated below the edge of the Brass Base. After firing; 9 of the 10 cups were slightly elevated above the edge of the brass bases; wondering if this will result in flattened primers when fired behind an RCBS 200 Sil boolit at ~ 1800 FPS.

I have not deprimed the brass yet; so I can not analyze the cups after being fired without a powder charge and boolit. They did throw a 6 to 8 inch flame out the muzzle of my .308 Winchester Heavy Barrel Rem 700; and no gas leakage from the cup base.

[MUSTANG]

I disassembled the fired Galvanized Steel Cup primers that I Test Fired yesterday (No Powder and No Ball). The cups and residue is seen in the photo:



I removed the Anvils and scraped the residue from the cups. The dimple is as sharp/deep as commercial primers I have pulled anvils from. I am pondering if the steel is just right ; or may be on the soft side. I guess we will see when I fire RCBS 200 Sil loads at ~ 1800 FPS. Even more so at full pressure loads if these work out.

The White in the picture is the residue after firing the Galvanized Steel Cup Primers. The residue is about 4 times what is seen in the Picture (Had to cut the image down and reduce resolution to be able to post). I scraped all the residue into a single pile and placed it onto a 12 inch section of railroad rail to use as an anvil; struck the pile 5 times with a hammer, and no result. This means the highly energetic portions of the primer mixture was consumed on firing. What remains appears to be the residue of Ammonium Nitrate from the 0.9 Grains of Tannerite substituted for the Aluminum Powder of the P4-1 Mixture (I track this as the P4-3 Mixture), My assumption based on color and granular size remaining is this is the Ammonium Nitrate from the Tannerite Mixture. As previously posted; the Flame was 6-8 Inches and a good strong sound report derived from these. I am tempted to set these once fired cups aside, and look and see if the Galvanized Steel cups are/were affected by the Ammonium Nitrate over time.

The Galvenized Primer Cups seem to be reusable; keeping in mind that there was no powder and ball. I am probably going to try a "Remanufacture" of the Galvanized Steel Primer Cups after I get to the range and test fire a group of "Live Ammo" loaded with the Galvanized Steel Primer Cups.

[GONRA]

GONRA sez:
(Thinking about SHELF LIFE! !!)
Most of the primer mixes ya'll mention here are best loaded in "NOT steel" primer cups!!
Copper, Zinc, Aluminum are OK.......

[barnetmill]

I have also had some internal deliberation concerning the potential for a reaction between the galvanized steel and the brass case. After my abysmal failure with the 0.014 Amerimax aluminum in these dies; I retraced back to "READ & FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS". That gives me a baseline to follow and evaluate using the specified 0.017 Galvanized Steel Flashing.

To find the Flashing of correct thickness I had gone to the Local Ace, Lowes, and finally Home Depot with my dial caliper. It was at the Home Depot I found the 5" x 8" flashing of the correct thickness. I looked at Brass sheets while at all three; but did not find anything in stock that was 0.017 thickness in the Brass.

I did find on Amazon: K&S Percision Metals 16404 Brass Sheet Metal Rack, 0.016" Thickness x 6" Width x 12" Length, 26 gauge, Made in USA. It is one thousandth inch thinner than the Galvanized Steel Flashing. Will it make a difference; do not know but I have previously ordered a sheet to experiment with.
https://www.amazon.com/Percision-Met...02&sr=1-3&th=1

My thoughts are that the Galvanized Steel and Brass Case will take weeks to a year or more to start the corrosion (if it occurs) to a point where it is an issue. To date, all of my "Home Bolt Primers" are shot in less than a month from creation and pressing into a Brass Case - so it's not an issue. Long term - producing and storing, loading and storing will become an area where others and myself will gain experience and knowledge of what works, where it works (i.e. humid vs arid areas), and for how long. I have some Primers I remanufactured with Prime All about 18-20 months ago that I am going to "Test Fire" without powder and ball sometime in the next month or so. THat's kind of what will be needed to establish the question if the Galvanized Steel Primer cup is problematic or not.


Of course the question of Per Cup cost comes into play. For the Galvanized 5" X 8" steel costs 88 cents. The 6" X 12" 0.016 Brass Sheet from Amazon costs $4.98. Converting that to estimated Cup prices for each with closely spaced punch outs on primers:

Brass Cup - about 1.1 cents each
Steel Cup - about 0.29 cents each.

When connecting dissimilar metals such as copper wire to Aluminum wire an antioxidant paste is applied. Consulting the chemists here, is something that can be done similar for galvanized and just plain iron with touching aluminum.
I am would also worry about the anvil that is I think brass that is touching the primer cup.

Use the ideal noalox anti-oxidant joint compound to improve the conductivity of aluminum electrical connections. Anti-oxidant compound is a perfect safeguard for aluminum to aluminum, aluminum to copper wire connections and aluminum conduit joints.

[Super Sneaky Steve]

Someone needs to make a primer cup maker for berdan sized primers, especially the larger x54r type size...

Although I do keep playing around in my head if a .224 gas check would work for those...

In my mind this is the only good use of this tool. Messing around with tiny anvils is a pain in the butt and removing the dent from the original cup is probably less work.

[barnetmill]

Someone needs to make a primer cup maker for berdan sized primers, especially the larger x54r type size...

Although I do keep playing around in my head if a .224 gas check would work for those...

That cup is huge, I think closeto .25 if you are talking about the real big ones that one sees now and then.

[MUSTANG]

GONRA sez:
(Thinking about SHELF LIFE! !!)
Most of the primer mixes ya'll mention here are best loaded in "NOT steel" primer cups!!
Copper, Zinc, Aluminum are OK.......

The Steel Primers are being made from Galvanized Steel. Zink is the coating "Galvanized" portion. As noted in GONRA's post; zink is used to avoid the Steel Corrosion/Rust problem.

[MUSTANG]

I fired some test rounds with the Galvanized Steel Primer Cups today. Only fired 7 rounds; this is the Specs on the load:

Rifle: Remington 700 ADL Varmint .308
Barrel Twist: 1 in 12
Wind: 7 Mph left to right.
Temp: 37 degrees F.
Boolit: 308 RCBS 200 Silhouette
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.255
Brinell Hardness: 20
Bullet sized: .310
Alloy: 96% Lead, 3% Antimony, 1% Tin
Bullet Powder Coated: Powder Coated with Eastwood Blue Paint.
Gas Check: Ameri-max Aluminum 0.14”
Powder: BLC-2 30 Grains with a Dacron Filler
Primer: Remanufactured Remington 9 1/2 primer cup - Red Phosphorus Primer Mixture
Case: PMC Brass
OAL: 2.50 inches
Distance: 100 Yards.



Not the best group shot with this boolit; but this is "Proof of Concept" Testing using the Galvanized Steel Primer Cups. There were no visible problems encountered; the cups seem to have survived the pressures of the cast Boolit Loads without problem. (Will have to do some testing down stream with Jacketed Bullets and velocities in 2600 to 2750 range to see how the perform).

Later this weekend I will deprive these cups and evaluate them after they are out of the brass.

[elmacgyver0]

I bought a couple of those tools on sale at Powder Valley a while back.
I have some galvanized flashing that measured .010, probably too thin, so I tried some copper flashing that measured .019, first try just made a little copper disk.
I just left the little cylinder in the tool and tried it again, this time it made a perfect little primer cup, works every time now.
That is as far as I have gone with primer reloading so far.

[elmacgyver0]

Had a couple more disc failures after trying some aluminum, the aluminum seems too thin.
Lubricated the copper strips with a bit of Ballistol and it hasn't had a failure since.
I have a bunch of the copper left from a project I did several years ago, figured it might come in handy someday.

[Nobade]

Following this with interest. Kind of makes us wish we'd kept all those Berdan primed cases we sent to the recycler years ago, eh?

[barnetmill]

Following this with interest. Kind of makes us wish we'd kept all those Berdan primed cases we sent to the recycler years ago, eh?

The berdan cups are not the right size. Save the old boxer cups and remove the anvil, but save for later reuse.

[MUSTANG]

I have 1,000 to 1,500 of the 7.62x51 Burden Primed cases salvaged from range pick ups over the year. I had intended to make 50BMG Swaged bullets from it some day; but started looking at it for the .308's instead recently (although I have lots of Boxer .308 Brass).


I have begun to think of remanufacturing the Berdan Primer Cups to reload. I have tried unsuccessfully to do a "HYRDRO" removal of the Berdan Primer Cups (Can't reuse the cup if it is picked out and damaged). Because all of my salvaged Berdan Brass has the cups staked in; the HYDRO has not worked for me to remove any of the cups - not a single one. I resized the necks on the Berdan .308 cases, put a slightly larger punch in the mouth and whacked it with a 3 pound sledge. Nada - nothing - the water just squirted past the sides of the punch.

Anyone had success in removing Berdan Primer Cups using the Hydro Method when cups are staked into the Primer Pocket?

[firefly1957]

Thanks for the thread update or I may not have seen it .
I am getting good results with the R.P. from same place you got it my percussion caps are quite powerful and even ignite old clumpy CTG Pyrodex well . I am still working on cap maker in the H.F. 1 ton arbor press . for now I am turning Large primer cups into #11 caps.

I settled on 8 grs. Barium Chlorate , 2 grains Charcoal dust, and .3 grains R.P. . I am also just scooping it dry into the cup with a small pistol primer cup on a brass rod . This gives me .2 grains and is far more energy then commercial caps so later I will work on lower amount . I am currently using a very thinned (maybe 100-1 polish/acetone) Acrylic nail polish brushed over the cap then dried to bind it . It will go off wet or dry ! I mixed the items wet with water and let dry and it falls apart dry to scoop up . I was worried on energy if static set it off while light impact does make it explode a full 10.3 grain batch unconfined with a fuse in it burned a bit faster then smokeless powder no pop or explosion .

[barnetmill]

I have 1,000 to 1,500 of the 7.62x51 Burden Primed cases salvaged from range pick ups over the year. I had intended to make 50BMG Swaged bullets from it some day; but started looking at it for the .308's instead recently (although I have lots of Boxer .308 Brass).


I have begun to think of remanufacturing the Berdan Primer Cups to reload. I have tried unsuccessfully to do a "HYRDRO" removal of the Berdan Primer Cups (Can't reuse the cup if it is picked out and damaged). Because all of my salvaged Berdan Brass has the cups staked in; the HYDRO has not worked for me to remove any of the cups - not a single one. I resized the necks on the Berdan .308 cases, put a slightly larger punch in the mouth and whacked it with a 3 pound sledge. Nada - nothing - the water just squirted past the sides of the punch.

Anyone had success in removing Berdan Primer Cups using the Hydro Method when cups are staked into the Primer Pocket?

I have never done staked primers that I know of. I used a neck sizing expander on a sized case to compressed and push water. It made the press rust since the priming was corrosive.

[Nobade]

The only way I have been succesful with removing those primers was to make a punch that fit the neck and had two pieces of music wire that fit the flash holes.