Primer cup manufacturing from .017 thick galvanized steel

[MUSTANG]

About 6 months or so ago I noticed an add on Sharp Shooter (company that sells Prime All) that they had a Primer Cup making die (Small and Large) available.

https://sharpshooter-22lr-reloader.m...e8ebe5f1&_ss=r .

Price was (and is currently $129.95 each for a Small Primer Cup or a Large Primer Cup die. I was interested, but not $130 worth of interest times two. About 2 months ago; Powder Valley had an e-mail advertisement on both sized – price was I believe $59 each. But…. Opening up the add; they were “Sold Out”. I looked a couple timeS each month; then about 3 weeks ago I got another E-Mail add from Powder Valley, once again listing them for $59.00 each. I took the chance and ordered both, a Large and a Small Primer Cup Die set.

Looking at the Powder Valley Web Site this morning; I did find the product listed there - but it's price is now comparable to the Sharp Shooter Web Site.

[MUSTANG]

I got all the items together for making primers with the Large Primer Cup Die. This included:

Large Primer Cup Die:

https://sharpshooter-22lr-reloader.m...e8ebe5f1&_ss=r



Arbor Press:

https://www.harborfreight.com/1-ton-...ess-59766.html





Step Flashing, 5 inch x 8 inch Galvanized Steel, .017 thick:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Gibralta...-200/202221050



These are the only tools required to make Large Primer Cups with this die (a touch of 3 in 1 oil maybe).

[deces]

I was kind of hoping that this punch was made like a regular die, so it could be utilized in our presses. Very few reloaders are going to run out and get an arbor press for using this.

[elmacgyver0]

Do you think that tool will hold up with steel?
It was designed to be used with aluminum flashing.
Let us know how it works.

[MUSTANG]

I punched out about 14 Large Cups using the set up in # 2 above. Click on the following attachment to see pictures of the Steel Primer Cups punched out. For some reason they do not appear without clicking on the attachment.

Attachment 319347

I will be loading these with my P4-1 Primer Material (Made from Red Phosphorus and other chemicals).

See: https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...res&highlight=

One draw back I see to these Primer Cup Punch sets is that one must STILL recover primer Anvils from old primers to use in the new cups. Hopefully in a couple weeks I will be able to get out and try some loads using these Galvanized Steel Large Primer Cups/Primers. I'll post how it goes when that happens. In the mean time - all are willing to post and comment on this thread.

[elmacgyver0]

I was kind of hoping that this punch was made like a regular die, so it could be utilized in our presses. Very few reloaders are going to run out and get an arbor press for using this.

An arbor press is handy to have around, many uses.
I have a half ton one, this would give me an excuse to get a bigger one.
Oh, yeh, very few reloaders are going to make their own primers.

[elmacgyver0]

I have all the materials, chemicals, equipment, what have you to reload primers, just haven't implemented it yet.
Just kind of lazy I guess.

[MUSTANG]

Do you think that tool will hold up with steel?
It was designed to be used with aluminum flashing.
Let us know how it works.

Actually that is Incorrect.

I first tried using .014 AmeriMax Aluminum flashing that I use for my Gas Checks. It was an abysmal Failure! Going back to the Instructions; it specifically CALLS FOR THE USE OF 0.017 inch thick Galvanized Steel Flashing. Using this the Aluminum failure was behind me. I have not (and did not find any) 0.017 Aluminum. Guess the Instructions Meant what they Say in this case.

[elmacgyver0]

Actually that is Incorrect.

I first tried using .014 AmeriMax Aluminum flashing that I use for my Gas Checks. It was an abysmal Failure! Going back to the Instructions; it specifically CALLS FOR THE USE OF 0.017 inch thick Galvanized Steel Flashing. Using this the Aluminum failure was behind me. I have not (and did not find any) 0.017 Aluminum. Guess the Instructions Meant what they Say in this case.

From the web site description, I could have sworn it said aluminum, that is good to know, I was kind of skeptical about using aluminum for primer cups.

[MUSTANG]

As an additive "Spec" for these Large Primers:

The Height for the 14 Large Primer cups I fabricated is 0.1265 to 0.1275 inches. Most were 0.1270 inches tall.

Height for Large Rifle Primers as listed on One Primer Chart
CCI - 0.118
Federal - 0.117
Remington - 0.119
Winchester - 0.121

Height May be an issue on these primer cups I made. We will see. When I "Remanufacture Primers; the anvil arms are flush with the mouth of the Primer Cup. This is not the way most Commercial primers Anvils are seated; as they sit slightly proud above the edge of the cup. Seating the Anvils flush with the Cup edge may make this a non issue. Determination to follow at the range (or before at the reloading bench).

The Width for the 14 Large Primer cups I fabricated is 0.2120 to 0.2125 inches. Most were 0.2120 in width.

Width for Large Rifle Primers as listed on One Primer Chart
CCI - 0.2112
Federal - 0.2120
Remington - 0.2110
Winchester - 0.2114

The width seems to be just about right based on the Federal dimension and the smaller other Commercial Cup width dimensions.

[MUSTANG]

This evening I made up seven Primers with the Galvanized 0.017 cups. I chose seven primers simply because that's how much of my P4-1 primer mixture I had left over from my last primer mixing effort.



Not really that much to se; but it does show that the Primer can be assembled in the Steel Cup using a large anvil from previously fired (Repeatedly) Large Pistol Primer.

[worker]

I wish noebulletmolds.com would make the punches for various primer sizes (within a body of a regular die)

[MUSTANG]

I wish noebulletmolds.com would make the punches for various primer sizes (within a body of a regular die)

I agree. What I think would be "NICE"

(a) A threaded one punch Large Pistol/Rifle Cup Die similar to what I bought that fits standard 7/8 Reloading Press.

(b) A threaded one punch Small Pistol/Rifle Cup Die similar to what I bought that fits standard 7/8 Reloading Press.

(c) A threaded one punch 50BMG Cup Die similar to what I bought that fits standard 7/8 Reloading Press.


And also:

(d) A threaded one punch Large Pistol/Rifle Anvil Die to make 3 leg Anvils that fits standard 7/8 Reloading Press.

(e) A threaded one punch Small Pistol/Rifle Anvil Die to make 3 leg Anvils that fits standard 7/8 Reloading Press.

(f) A threaded one punch 50BMG Anvil Die to make 3 leg Anvils that fits standard 7/8 Reloading Press.

[MUSTANG]

I seated the 7 primers from post #11 above into a mixture of .308 Winchester cases. Click on picture to enlarge.



These Primers were seated with the Lee Reloading Ram Rifle/Pistol Primer (fits on my RCBS RockChucker). The feel for seating these Steel Primers was different than my long time observations for seating commercial rifle primers and for my remanufactured (previously fired) rifle primers.

Initial pressure to begin the primer into the 308 Winchester primer cup takes far more pressure than usual (Steel tougher than brass?) then once it starts is finishes seating much more rapidly than seating brass based primers. All 7 primers (different mfg brass cases) seated with the cup flat surface below the base of the Brass case slightly. My previous concern that it might not fit into the cases seems to be a non-issue. But; there may be some cases out there with less cup depth in the Brass case; we will see over time.

Will shoot these when I get a chance - hopefully in next week or so. Been under the weather over the last two weeks or so due to the Flu, or that which can not be mentioned, or some other malady. Weather went from nice fall temps to Deep Winter over the last week - (7 degrees last night and we have snow on the ground); so I have to go to a further range I belong to since that club plows the snow.

[Rockindaddy]

Wouldn't it be easier just to buy annealed soft sheet brass? The anvils are brass too. Could there be a reaction because of the dissimilar metals? Having galvanized sheet steel for the cup and brass for the anvil. Most commercial primers are nickel plated brass cups and plain brass for anvils. I am thinking eventually someone will offer dies for punching the primer cups and making a nesting die to form the cup. The anvil will require a punch and form die also. The idea proposed where dies could be screwed into a reloading press. Punch and form and a die change to make up the anvils. I designed and made a set of D2 dies to punch a disc out of 24 ga 316 stainless many years ago. I then made a nesting die set that formed the cup for the civil war period Smith carbine. The formed cup was pressed into a polyethylene tube. I sold them to a lot of shooters and also Dixie Gun Works. The stainless bottom cup never burned out. This primer shortage hopefully will end. But we are innovative !!! Make our own primers!

[GONRA]

GONRA manfactures 9mm Berdan primer cups (look like a .38 cal. half jacket)
on a CH Swag-O-Matic press from 7/16 blanks punched out from 41 mil Cu sheet.
"Hold Down" is provided by the threaded ring that holds the die in place.
Make yer own punch, die, etc.
Slather on gooey STP Oil Treatment for forming....

(Product is for making 9mm Soviet Berdan primers.)

[MUSTANG]

I have also had some internal deliberation concerning the potential for a reaction between the galvanized steel and the brass case. After my abysmal failure with the 0.014 Amerimax aluminum in these dies; I retraced back to "READ & FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS". That gives me a baseline to follow and evaluate using the specified 0.017 Galvanized Steel Flashing.

To find the Flashing of correct thickness I had gone to the Local Ace, Lowes, and finally Home Depot with my dial caliper. It was at the Home Depot I found the 5" x 8" flashing of the correct thickness. I looked at Brass sheets while at all three; but did not find anything in stock that was 0.017 thickness in the Brass.

I did find on Amazon: K&S Percision Metals 16404 Brass Sheet Metal Rack, 0.016" Thickness x 6" Width x 12" Length, 26 gauge, Made in USA. It is one thousandth inch thinner than the Galvanized Steel Flashing. Will it make a difference; do not know but I have previously ordered a sheet to experiment with.
https://www.amazon.com/Percision-Met...02&sr=1-3&th=1

My thoughts are that the Galvanized Steel and Brass Case will take weeks to a year or more to start the corrosion (if it occurs) to a point where it is an issue. To date, all of my "Home Bolt Primers" are shot in less than a month from creation and pressing into a Brass Case - so it's not an issue. Long term - producing and storing, loading and storing will become an area where others and myself will gain experience and knowledge of what works, where it works (i.e. humid vs arid areas), and for how long. I have some Primers I remanufactured with Prime All about 18-20 months ago that I am going to "Test Fire" without powder and ball sometime in the next month or so. THat's kind of what will be needed to establish the question if the Galvanized Steel Primer cup is problematic or not.


Of course the question of Per Cup cost comes into play. For the Galvanized 5" X 8" steel costs 88 cents. The 6" X 12" 0.016 Brass Sheet from Amazon costs $4.98. Converting that to estimated Cup prices for each with closely spaced punch outs on primers:

Brass Cup - about 1.1 cents each
Steel Cup - about 0.29 cents each.

[ofitg]

Mustang, thanks for posting! I have been waiting for somebody to write up a review on those primer cup forming dies....

Do you have any future plans to recycle Small Rifle/Pistol primers?

[MUSTANG]

I have the Small Primer set up to make cups; so will give them a try sometime the Late Fall Winter. Also; I will be looking into Remanufacturing Small Rifle Primers with P4-X mixtures this Late Fall and Winter and Spring.

[DougGuy]

I can only think that the reason they say galvanized steel is that under pressure, the galvanized coating is much softer than steel and it serves as a lubricant to the dies?