40-90 sharps straight

[FLINTNFIRE]

So I bought brass for a pedersoli with a 40-90 sharps straight barrel that was put on it by a older Oregon gentleman and used by him before I bought it from Lincoln city sporting goods a few years ago .

I bought brass from Grafs that fit perfect along with the few brass that were included when I bought this firearm , so bought some from Huntingtons and had to reduce the thickness of rims to chamber , so far so good I guess , then I see 40-90ss original chamber brass on Baco , so I bought more , well in same bags as Huntingtons was and same thickness of rims .

So I send email to email for Bertram , dead link on email on bags , send email to website email get a response to ask manufacture , and yes I already called Baco ,Baco was well you can send it back , well I could but there really is no one selling 3 1/4 inch brass and like to have some so anyone know much about bertram and or 40-90ss , enclosed are pictures of brass bag and box .

Internet has very little on this cartridge and yes I have googled and regoogled and looked for everything I can find , I do see references every once in awhile from members here and on Shilohs forum , any input is appreciated , and yes I should have had it rebored to a 45-whatever to simplify , but I do kind of like the orphaned and widowed items as it is different , thank you for you replies and or knowledge .

[gc45]

Call Shiloh Sharps, they chamber that case in their rifles and might be of some help.

[Mr.doug]

I bought a used shiloh in 40/90 ss 10 years ago. Had a lot f problems with the brass, BACO always had it in stock
But it was 4.00 a case and was 405 basic rolled out on a manderal to make it 3 1/4” long. Case necks
We’re always all over the the place in thickness. Also had alot on case separations because of this. Got tired of dealing with the expensive brass and sent rifle to Shiloh and re-barreled it in 45/90. Not an easy
Cartridge to deal with. And this was way pre-Covid when everything was easy to get. Good luck

[Bent Ramrod]

The original .40-3-1/4” has a base and rim diameter of 0.476” and 0.561” respectively.

Bertram .40-90 Sharps Straight shells have these dimensions, and I would surmise that the old Bell Basic cases were the same. If you ordered .40-90 Straight Reloading dies from CH4D or RCBS, you got them for these shells.

When Shiloh started offering the .40-90 Straight chambering, the Bell operation was long out of business and Bertram brass was getting a lot of QC complaints. So they went with the Huntington/RCBS “.405 Basic” shells which had base and rim diameters of 0.452” and 0.541”, same as .30-40 Krag, and the proper length. Krag shells could be redrawn or stretched to the .40-70 length at least; maybe to .40-90; although I’m not sure of this. The longer they’re drawn, the fewer loadings they seem to stand before mouth splitting. But the .405 Basic was readily available back then, and could be used as-is.

The better quality and easier availability of the .405 Basic shells wrought a mutant chambering called the “.40-90 Shiloh Sharps Straight,” which became the industry standard, since few owners of the original rifles shot them much and the Bertram offerings sufficed for them.

However, an owner who had bought Bertram or some old Bell brass, and loading dies, in advance for the new barrel he was going to chamber to .40-90 was on a perilous path. The reamer rental places stocked the .40-90 Shiloh chamber reamers and had no idea that there was ever an earlier, more authentic case of different dimensions. The happy customer would rent the reamer, simply described as “.40-90 Sharps Straight,” ream his chamber, try his sized shells in it, find they didn’t go in by about a half-inch, and was suddenly much less happy. He would need to buy an expensive .40-3-1/4” reamer of original dimensions in order to use his expensive shells and expensive loading dies. A classic Money Pit.

Don’t ask me how I know this.

So it appears that your chamber is the .40-90 Shiloh (doubtless from a rented reamer) and you have a bunch of original brass that you can’t use. You might be able to trade it for Shiloh Sharps brass, or .405 Basic brass, or unload it to someone who has an original rifle or chamber.

I myself know a rather disgruntled individual with a receipt from the reamer rental place and a new reamer for the original .40-90 chamber (used once), who survived this adventure in mutant cartridge confusion, poorer but much, much wiser.

[FLINTNFIRE]

Good post , but I have the original chamber , not the Shiloh Sharps chamber , base measures .477 rim at .560 , it is the thickness of the rim that is the issue with bag in picture from Baco , it is the same as stuff Huntingtons was selling .

I have no idea who barreled it or reamed the chamber , 405 basic brass has the thicker rim as used in the Shiloh guns , the picture shows the red box of Bertram I purchased from grafs it fits like a glove as does the brass that came with rifle and I am using ch4d dies marked for original ( as a note the diameter of bore on originals was around .403 and this one is .408 ) .

I have spent some time now thinning the rims to fit as 3 1/4 inch long 40 caliber brass with right diameter of rim is rare and yes expensive .

Rifle started out as a Pedersoli from Dixie gun works , the story I was told by the sporting goods store doing the sale for the original owner was , he bought the receiver without a barrel from Dixie as the barrels or chambers were messed up , he had it barreled and chambered and used it at local competitions , dies 20 some brass and shellholder came with rifle rear sight is supposed to be a copy of a Fruend sight , I had to remove barrel and file and blue as it still had lines across surface and what was obvious cold paste blue .

So I can use original brass , and the stuff made from 405 basic if I thin the thickness down a little , I am just curious as I see mentions from time to time on here about 40-90 ss , one poster in another thread made the remark about having purchased a supply of brass and another mentioned making 40-90 ss was harder then the shorter 40 caliber straights .

Thank you for your posts and for time .