Trading Silver/Gold In A Broken Economy

[MUSTANG]

One could ask "When would my Precious Metal come into play?"

Consider the following picture.
Attachment 319338

It is a Wheel Barrel full of German Currency in the 1920's. Note; there is no security on the wheel barrel! Workers were being paid at Noon break, and at end of evening shift - Why, because the money was devaluing so rapidly that they could not buy a loaf of bread for what they were making 24 hours earlier.

My wife's family is from Germany. Her dad came to US in 1921 - he was a German Illegal Alien. He had been a apprentice baker and his contract was sold to a ship, he jumped ship in New York Harbor at 13. He returned to Germany in 1934 but filed with US immigration so he could return to US legally - Saw this Hitler Guy and decided it was not a good deal. Returned to US and became a US Citizen. Any way; her Fathers Father (Grand Father) had a farm. He would put money into a jar, and when a Jar was full he would put it in a Secret Spot along with other Jars. He had enough money and wanted to buy the farm next door; but ..... The German Hyper Inflation hit and ALL of that saved paper currency that could have bought the fam next door became so useless it was not worth burning.

Hyper inflation cam occur rapidly. Check out the value of the Zimbabwean Dollar during Hyper inflation - I carry a Zimbabwean $100 Trillion bill in my wallet as a reminder of what Governments (Ours Included) can do to the value of it's currency with BAD POLICY. We put a little of our savings into Silver and Gold years ago; it's gone up in value against US $; but not dramatically compared to inflation factors - but in a US Hyper Inflation it will not be the paper in a Glass Jars out in the Barn.

[HWooldridge]

My grandparents were born around the turn of the previous century so they were in their 30's when the Great Depression hit. My mother's family was living on a farm that had been established in 1849 and never upgraded much. They were still driving mule teams for plowing until WW2 and had one car per family - either a model T or a model A. There was no phone service and the nearest town was about 9 miles away.

They told me a lot of stories when I was growing up, but to summarize the points discussed here, there wasn't much cash money available and a lot of work was done on barter. In addition to farming, my grandfather was a blacksmith and a butcher, so he could trade out a hog for other groceries. They raised hogs, had a milk cow, and kept chickens - the farm was on a river so there was both fish and wild game available. My mother said they didn't have any extra money but nobody ever went hungry.

Contrast that to a story told to me by a man I used to work for - he was in his early teens when the '29 crash hit - but he lived in urban Newark, NJ. He said they had to beg, borrow and steal to get one chicken - and his mother made it last for a week (family of three). He recalled being hungry on many occasions.

Think about the aftermath of Katrina. Lots of people who couldn't do anything to help themselves and were waiting for someone to come rescue them. Those will be the ones to either die first or turn into roving gangs that will be bent on taking whatever they can get.

I don't know whether precious metals will be worth anything during a government collapse. There was a Twilight Zone episode where a gang of crooks had been cryogenically frozen after conviction for robbing a bank of a bunch of gold. They were accidentally revived several hundred years later and undertook an arduous journey to find the gold stash, which was now in a desert. All of the crooks eventually died of dehydration but were carrying the gold bullion; the cops who found them remarked that water had now become the most precious commodity - and gold was being synthesized artificially so it was effectively worthless.

[MT Gianni]

If you have things, you've made yourself a target, if you have skills you've made yourself a commodity! I've often read, that people who've survived a real life government collapse, claim that cigarettes and booze are the real investments to have!

I could tell you the jewelry story from Germany at the end of WW2, but I'll just say that a whole lot of material wealth don't go far when your behind the 8 ball.

Booze and tobacco are great trading items for the first three weeks until the addicts are either dead or over their addictions. If it gets extended, they are unneeded luxuries.

[MUSTANG]

As things go to the bottom - Alcohol will be the last anti-septic left.

[hoodat]

Booze and tobacco are great trading items for the first three weeks until the addicts are either dead or over their addictions. If it gets extended, they are unneeded luxuries.

You must know an entirely different class of boozers and smokers than I do. Most of em would murder their mom for a smoke if they were out for a couple weeks. jd

[rancher1913]

i suppose the new cars might be good for something, those e-85 engines might be able to be bumped up to e-100 and then you can distill your own fuel-----if you have the gold to buy the corn

[hoodat]

i suppose the new cars might be good for something, those e-85 engines might be able to be bumped up to e-100 and then you can distill your own fuel-----if you have the gold to buy the corn

On a serious note, I think that having a stable full of decent running used cars would be a pretty good investment these days; probably better than silver and gold. When almost any new car costs thirty grand or so, there is a lot of folks who will gladly pay ten or fifteen thou for a used one that's actually worth five. jd

[HWooldridge]

On a serious note, I think that having a stable full of decent running used cars would be a pretty good investment these days; probably better than silver and gold. When almost any new car costs thirty grand or so, there is a lot of folks who will gladly pay ten or fifteen thou for a used one that's actually worth five. jd

That is true - I have strangers approach me in parking lots and ask whether my ‘97 F250 is for sale. I say no then drive away. There is a strong market for this price range - I work with a guy who buys cars at auction then makes a few repairs and flips them. He probably pulls down an extra $50K per year working part time.

[hoodat]

I just bought a 2007 Lexus for 2500 bucks. It is in great shape even for a car half it's age -- pretty much a God send. I think I could double or even triple my money -- but-- Mrs. hoodat has already fell in love with it. jd

[GrayTech]

Skills are the only tradable commodity that cannot be stolen from you, bar slavery. Medical and healing skills will likely be king right from the onset, repair and maker skills high on the list too as things progress.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[JSnover]

One could ask "When would my Precious Metal come into play?"

Consider the following picture.
Attachment 319338

It is a Wheel Barrel full of German Currency in the 1920's. Note; there is no security on the wheel barrel! Workers were being paid at Noon break, and at end of evening shift - Why, because the money was devaluing so rapidly that they could not buy a loaf of bread for what they were making 24 hours earlier.

It's true.
Germany, Zimbabwe... An Economics professor told me about his trip to Brazil in the 70s or 80s, if I remember. Workers would be paid cash on Friday afternoon and literally run from the plant to pay bills and buy whatever groceries they could because that handful of money wouldn't be worth as much by the Saturday morning.

[Lloyd Smale]

if you still had paper money during the depression it was still good. problem was people did not have paper money because the stock market crashed and it bankrupted the people who paid the wages so no one was earning money. but if you were sitting on a pile of cash you were set just fine. matter of fact my grandfather said people were trying to sell rings and jewlery to buy food and got pennies on the dollar because there just wasnt a market to resell it. people wanted bread not gold and it was rare to find anyone that would sell food for gold because they at that time didnt understand the market or more often just werent set up to take it and resell it to get that rare paper money. he said there were places in the citys that did it but in rural areas it was barter or paper money. another thing that would make people skeptical in a full on shtf senerio is the internet would be down and there would be no way that anyone could keep track of the price its selling for day to day.

just thinking out loud on this one. what if the value of the dollar crashed. our government would be broke too . so what would be common sense if gold was still worth what it always has been? my guess is they would open the doors at fort knox and flood the market with gold and doing that would make its worth crash.

[MUSTANG]

if you still had paper money during the depression it was still good. problem was people did not have paper money because the stock market crashed and it bankrupted the people who paid the wages so no one was earning money. but if you were sitting on a pile of cash you were set just fine. matter of fact my grandfather said people were trying to sell rings and jewlery to buy food and got pennies on the dollar because there just wasnt a market to resell it. people wanted bread not gold and it was rare to find anyone that would sell food for gold because they at that time didnt understand the market or more often just werent set up to take it and resell it to get that rare paper money. he said there were places in the citys that did it but in rural areas it was barter or paper money. another thing that would make people skeptical in a full on shtf senerio is the internet would be down and there would be no way that anyone could keep track of the price its selling for day to day.

just thinking out loud on this one. what if the value of the dollar crashed. our government would be broke too . so what would be common sense if gold was still worth what it always has been? my guess is they would open the doors at fort knox and flood the market with gold and doing that would make its worth crash.

Post 101 and and post 111 are opposite ends of the Fiscal Disaster spectrum. In 101 the currency was Inflated to have less value in the zero's than the paper the zeros were printed on. In 111 the money supply was RESTRICTED. Banks would not loan, people would only buy essentials (discounting the emergence of the mafia, numbers rackets, gin joints, and drug dealers). For those who had cash (except the rubber wealthy)sat on it and literally hid it under the mattress, Banks foreclosed at any opportunity because they needed hard assets on the books to forestall insolvency (Banks are built on a Ponzi Scheme where they lend 7:1, 20:1, even 100:1 against the actual money they have). The Dem-God Roosevelt confiscated Gold to forestall the populace from demanding either Silver/Gold for payment; or demanding 2:1, 7:1, 100:1, or even ∞:1 exchange of an item for paper currency (see Germany and Zimbabwe in post 101). Stabilization of the currency and hoarding USofA Gold to use as a lever in International politics was the goal of the Demi-God Roosevelts Gold Confiscation policy.

If Gold and Silver and ______ have no value in crisis - why do governments seek to confiscate it and hold it in their coffers. Of course when a country falls, whatever leaders are left towards the end Abscond with the Gold, Silver, _____ to some distant country.

[MT Gianni]

My Great grandfather shipped his calves and old cows to the cow palace in San Francisco from Lyndale Utah in 1927. In between the shipping and arrival the market crashed and he, with no reserve or secondary buyer, found the sale price was insufficient to pay shipping cost. He lost $0.10 a head from the herd that would pay him for the next year. He kept the ranch for the next 7 years until he lost it in a scam. The government said that if you had defaulted on a loan you would not loose your property unless you had paid recently. The lenders sent people out to harass the outstanding people and great grandpa gave them a dollar. They foreclosed on the ranch as he had money to pay on it but it took 7 years.
We are speculation on things we imagine but are not sure of.

[MaryB]

if you still had paper money during the depression it was still good. problem was people did not have paper money because the stock market crashed and it bankrupted the people who paid the wages so no one was earning money. but if you were sitting on a pile of cash you were set just fine. matter of fact my grandfather said people were trying to sell rings and jewlery to buy food and got pennies on the dollar because there just wasnt a market to resell it. people wanted bread not gold and it was rare to find anyone that would sell food for gold because they at that time didnt understand the market or more often just werent set up to take it and resell it to get that rare paper money. he said there were places in the citys that did it but in rural areas it was barter or paper money. another thing that would make people skeptical in a full on shtf senerio is the internet would be down and there would be no way that anyone could keep track of the price its selling for day to day.

just thinking out loud on this one. what if the value of the dollar crashed. our government would be broke too . so what would be common sense if gold was still worth what it always has been? my guess is they would open the doors at fort knox and flood the market with gold and doing that would make its worth crash.

There are communications methods other than the internet... I have a desk full of radios...

[rancher1913]

if you still had paper money during the depression it was still good. problem was people did not have paper money because the stock market crashed and it bankrupted the people who paid the wages so no one was earning money. but if you were sitting on a pile of cash you were set just fine. matter of fact my grandfather said people were trying to sell rings and jewlery to buy food and got pennies on the dollar because there just wasnt a market to resell it. people wanted bread not gold and it was rare to find anyone that would sell food for gold because they at that time didnt understand the market or more often just werent set up to take it and resell it to get that rare paper money. he said there were places in the citys that did it but in rural areas it was barter or paper money. another thing that would make people skeptical in a full on shtf senerio is the internet would be down and there would be no way that anyone could keep track of the price its selling for day to day.

just thinking out loud on this one. what if the value of the dollar crashed. our government would be broke too . so what would be common sense if gold was still worth what it always has been? my guess is they would open the doors at fort knox and flood the market with gold and doing that would make its worth crash.

during the great depression the fiat money was backed by gold and silver, thats no longer the case

[JimB..]

Silver I bought in 2001 for $8/oz is now worth $23.45. I call that a good rate of return. My dollar cost average(add up all your paid prices and divide by total ounces) is currently running $12/oz... still a really good rate of return! And long term it is running about 50% higher than the inflation rate so again a good investment.

To many think of silver like day trading, go in for a quick buck. Nope, that is a recipe to lose money! Silver is a long term investment!

Sorry, I’ve been away.

For simple math, cause that’s all I do, you put $8 into silver and have $23, growth of 2.87x. Same period DJIA went from $9,200 to $32,400, growth of 3.5x. Same period the NASDAQ composite went from $2,000 to $12,600, growth of 5.3x.

Silver hasn’t been bad as an investment over this period.

Of course many believe that silver is artificially depressed, that it should be much much higher and will eventually “pop” up to a “proper” value relative to gold. If that happens, holders of silver win big.

[rancher1913]

like has been hammered thru out this thread, pm's are not a make money to the max item, they are a store of money that can make some money. with pm's, unless you are a real idiot, you hold physical in your hand and it can not be taken from you with out force. anything on paper can be taken on a whim by the corporations that have supplied it, be it paper gold or paper stocks. why do you think all the investors killed themselves in the 20's when the market crashed. everybody says it cant happen now until it does and everybody holding paper gets shorted. why do you think all the big fish are looking for investments that they can hold, like farmground. personally i think ground is a better investment than gold but i am priced out of the market now. my gold will pay my taxes so i can keep what ground i have and possibly pay delinquent taxes on other ground so i can own it.

[Lloyd Smale]

If Gold and Silver and ______ have no value in crisis - why do governments seek to confiscate it and hold it in their coffers. Of course when a country falls, whatever leaders are left towards the end Abscond with the Gold, Silver, _____ to some distant country.

because they realize every crisis we have been through are short term and that we will recover. in a real shtf senerio where weve lost our goverment and people are in survival mode and struggling to find food day to day the average guy will find that money and gold are useless. or if russia and china walk in here they will take it from you and if they find out you hid it from them shoot you in front of the rest of us to set an example. that is for the most part whats being discussed here. not the inflation we are seeing today or a stock market crash we will eventually come out of.

im not into gold and this is a legit question. inflation in the last year has gone up 5% give or take. did gold go up that much or more in that time? some say the real number is closer to 10%. if you want an investment that has always stood the test of time over the long run invest in land or properties. i bought two 40s with a camp in 1989 ror 23k. last summer my brother in law was out at camp and two guys stopped by and offered to buy it for 250k.

if shtf i have 10 acers cleared and cultivated i could grow food on. deer, bear and small game to eat and timber that could be harvested and sold. add to that its out in the sticks and surrounded on three sides by 1000s of acres of state land and other then one camp the nearest home is 18 miles away . now which would serve you better if shtf. that 80 acres or some rocks. youll be begging me to trade come beans and venison for your rocks and it will be a wasted trip. only thig id trade for is diesel fuel and seeds and really wouldnt need the seeds and the only other camp nearby is a buddy that lives there year round and has plow horses and old school equipment.

if you dont have land or worse yet live in a city or suburb that is where the troubles will really be. chances are you dont have food or if you do someone will kill you for it so dump your rocks now and buy a 40 as far from the citys as you can get. best case senerio is nothing happens and you have a piece of land that if you had the sense to buy good land will pace the value of your gold. noe i know there is some here that have a good setup for just in case and want gold too. Me i have 10-15 years left at best. im not sitting around my house admiring some rocks. im going to spend my money having as much fun as i can. lifes to short and you cant take it to heaven. your family can split up your gold and mine can fight over guns and toys and property and if there smart will get together and decide to keep camp the guns and food and ammo so they have somewhere to try to get by.

[MUSTANG]

And on the other side of the coin (Pun intended); that land that one purchased will be subject to an annual County/Municipal/State Tax or variety of Taxes depending on location. Additionally, most pieces of land require maintenance, even if it is only periodic road maintenance to allow access to the property. If one leaves that "Wealth" to the next generation or other loved ones, once again depending on County/Municipal/State/Federal Law; there Tax man arrives and strips at least a portion of that wealth from those it is left to (Many Family Farms lost when passed to next generation and Tax Man wants his share but the family does not have $$ to pay and have to Borrow or sell to resolve).

Whereas most Precious metal is fairly small and easy to store and relocate. If one were to choose to do so; it remains "Unknown" by any but those the owner chooses to disclose to - including being passed to next generations. The Tax Man and the Governments may frown on it - but then again whey can only act on what they have records of or have direct knowledge of.

For full open disclosure. I have both land and a limited amount of Gold/Silver. My land/property is 1/2 revenue generation; the rest costs me annually due to taxes.