I have to agree a 33 round stick or 50 round drum is just plain no value to the average person. If feel you need something like that join the military and you can get a lot of trigger time
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I have to agree a 33 round stick or 50 round drum is just plain no value to the average person. If feel you need something like that join the military and you can get a lot of trigger time
Beware of a government that fears its citizens having the means to protect themselves.
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Veteran
Very good points! I appreciate the insight!Originally Posted by M-Tecs
I don't think you are a "paranoid freak" or anything. Just making the point that I had never heard of someone considering long stick or drum mags for carry with a pocket size gun.
Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, 6.5 Creedmoor, .30 WCF, .308 WCF, .45-70.
I've a couple of glock 30 and 33 round mags I put in my ruger charger pistol or the other sbr but they are range toys. Keep to the one or two extra round std extended mags. Keep the shortest std in gun to help conceal. But I get it. Whenever I go back to MS, I carry a few extra mags.... I can't use them if they are sitting at home and I ain't gonna wish I had them. 6 or 7 rounds is fine if you have one guy, but what if two or three? Would like to make to home.
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I guess I don't go to the same places you guys do. I've never felt the need for more than 20 rounds. When I carry my 9mm I only have the 17round mag in the pistol, no spares. Frequently I was satisfied with 15 (SP101 and two speed strips).
I try to always carry a spare mag. Not so much for the extra ammo but as a means of clearing a serious malfunction in case tap; rack; fire doesn’t work.
Another good point that's often overlooked.
Another reason I didn't go down the Draco, or even SUB2000 rabbit hole, which might apply in this case as well. I came to realize that the police might see me, with that weapon, and automatically assume I was the threat. Then if I were in the wrong area, a gung ho DA might try to hang me as "I went out looking for trouble, or went to start a fight" and that helped me realize it probably wasn't a good choice. Having an "extra high capacity magazine with 1oo bullets in the chamber" might not look well in a courtroom?
As for where I go, I really don't travel all that much and thought the Hellcat would be my end all be all EDC, as my health has declined, it became harder to do so comfortably, there's an entire thread on my choice to get the Kahr 380, even after changing some of my outfits to suit it better. Most times the Kahr, with 8rds and a spare mag is enough, but I've seen some crazy stuff recently that has changed my reasoning.
A few weeks ago we went to dinner as a family, chain restaurant that we enjoy, and can usually get seated quickly, we were sitting not far from the bar. A scuffle breaks out at the bar and this 50 something white male stands up, pumps his fist in the air and screams "WHITE POWER!!!" I immediately pushed my stool away, stood up and placed my hand firmly on my gun! An employee came over trying to calm me down and I was just screaming "He needs to leave NOW!!!!" I was in utter shock, never could have imagined something like that happening and who was I going to have to shoot first? Him if he came back in or the people he just pissed off that went on a rampage because of his stupidity? Fortunately he was promptly removed and nothing came of it, but how can you be prepared for something like that?
I honestly don't go looking, but I seem to have a knack for ending up in strange situations.
Unless you are LE or the restaurant owner you have no business inserting yourself into that situation. I strongly recommend taking another carry course and brushing up on when you can used deadly force. If you felt the situation was truly dangerous you and or family should have left as quickly and as discreetly as possible.
Prepared for what??????? A couple of guys got into a fight and one said something you didn't like. If that rattled you, how are you going to respond to a real deadly force situation????
People get into fights all the time. Same for saying things others don't like. It got strange you jumped up, put your hand on you gun and started screaming "He needs to leave NOW!!!!
Last edited by M-Tecs; 10-17-2023 at 09:18 PM.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
I did not insert myself, I took a defensive position besides my wife, but remained standing. I never left my table and just watched to make sure nothing was going to happen. As for exiting quickly, both lanes of exit were occupied, the culprit was on the patio with a woman being lectured and there was a crowd at the front door that would have been difficult at best to get through. I assure you I had assed the situation and looked for an exit strategy, a defensive position was my best choice. The employee approached me because I had stood up so quickly and took a position, he was seeing what was going on and making sure I wasn't making things worse, I wasn't and everything was handled calmy, as calm as it could be handled, and we finished our dinner. I never drew or revealed my gun, just made sure it was ready! The manager came over later and even apologized to us for the incident.
I carry a Glock 21 and 1 spare mag. If I get into something that won't take care of then I figure I'd be screwed no matter what.
Defensive positions generally involve cover and or concealment. Standing fully exposed next to the wife while screaming "He needs to leave NOW!!!!" not so much. If shooting did break out, where do you think the return fire would be directed?
If shooting did start in that type of situation, how do you know who the real threat is? Maybe the guy with the gun had been just stabbed and was just defending himself???
Too long to post but it's a good read about how things can go sideways. I am aware of several other "good guys" getting shot by mistake.
https://heavy.com/news/johnny-hurley/
Johnny Hurley was a Colorado Good Samaritan who was mistakenly shot by an Arvada police officer after heroically gunning down an active shooter who had already ambushed and murdered a police officer.
I have my wife trained if I say "condition red" she needs to immediately move away from me and seek cover. Last thing I want is her beside me if some is going to be shooting at me.
Once that's done, she is trained to call 911 with my description and statement I am one of the "good guys" while staying on the line describing event to 911 until the LE arrives and takes control of the situation.
Last edited by M-Tecs; 10-17-2023 at 10:55 PM.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
I wasn't worried about him as much as the crowd that was in the restaurant, it was a very mixed crowd. I wanted to make sure he wasn't coming back into the restaurant and I was watching the tables around to see who was reacting to what he'd said. I was concerned a race riot was going to break out! Thus my exclamation that he needed to leave, NOW!
I was against a wall, there was a short pony wall of fairly thin material between us and the bar, my wife and son ducked down on our table. There was no cover to be had, there was no easy exit, if I became the target, so be it, better me than them.
I'd have much rather been seated anywhere else, but you aren't really given options when staff seats you.
As I said, he was moved outside quickly, didn't return and fortunately no one either heard it, or wanted to make an issue of it.
As my wife and son are Asian, I took great offense to it, and me being a white male, may have easily become the target of an attack, it was a no win place to be.
If the high cap mags and drums are so great, why don't the LEO's carry them? I still carry my S&W 642 or 36 with a speed strip in my other pocket. Back in the day when I had to be armed, I carried a S&W 59 with two spare mags in a ******* Shoulder rig. Didn't care for the cartridge or the added weight!
Old enough to know better, young enough to do it anyway!
Men who don't understand women fall into two categories: bachelors and husbands!
I agree with M-Tecs. You possibly made the situation worse. Yes, by standing like that you are inserting yourself into the disturbance. And even looking like you are going to draw a weapon is escalating the situation. If you had drawn it you could have been charged with assault. Especially if you yelled out anything to anyone.
It was a verbal encounter that did not involve you. Stay calm and be alert. Don't escalate or you can be considered "part of the problem" and taken off to jail with the rest of them.
It does kinda explain why you feel like you need to be armed with a ton of ammo.
I do the same thing. My other recommendation is to wear a collared shirt under the vest. The weight can cause the vest to dig in a little. Nothing major but easier to wear a collar. I can basically carry what I want with the vest and have even gotten compliments on it. For some reason folks do not assume it is a carry vest, unlike wearing a carry belt that is kinda easy to see what it is for.
here is what I take from sawinredneck's comment about the resturant event. 1 he nor his family were in danger, 2 his reaction might have just elevated the event. If it had seen me I would have watched and seen how the owner(s) dealt with the situation. He could have maybe left with his family. From classes I have been in the first thing to do if things get out of hand is get out of there and let those who are trained to deal with situations handle it. If you have no way out then you might want to get into defense mode. I have no desire to become part of the problem which sawinredneck could very easily have become Just my thoughts
Beware of a government that fears its citizens having the means to protect themselves.
NRA Patron member
Veteran
This 100%. Never, ever intervene in a physical fight between others. You have no idea how it started, who the aggressor is, or how far any of them are willing to go as far as hurting others. You also don't know if any of them have weapons at the ready, even if they aren't using them at present.
Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, 6.5 Creedmoor, .30 WCF, .308 WCF, .45-70.
And this goes on.
Again, I didn't say anything, other than to the employee that approached me, I was loud, because I was angry, and fearful. I told the employee the person needed to leave now, I told the employee what he had done, the employee dropped his head in shame and shook it. It was taken care of from that point by management.
I was pocket carrying my little Kahr, so I had my hand in my pocket on the gun, which in that instance would be useless had things gone south. So I made no obvious defensive move.
Yes, I stood up, I looked at exits and was trying to formulate a plan to get my family out, but the employee approached quickly and all was taken care of.
Respectfully, as none of you were there, you didn't have to make these decisions, nor are you really aware of the actual situation. I didn't add anything to the situation other than to make sure the offender wasn't returning inside, from my table, and asses to make sure no one else escalated anything either. As I've stated time and again, I am of limited mobility, my best bet was to be upright so we could move quickly if things did get heated. I wasn't looking to instigate anything, I didn't instigate anything, and sat back down and finished our dinner, and as I said, the manager came over and apologized to us for the event. Had I done anything as dramatic as is being portrayed here, I'm certain we would have been asked to leave the restaurant.
It's easy to judge someone's actions afterwards, but it's something completely different to be in that situation. Trust me, I've been on both ends of a gun, more times than I care, and I don't like either end of it!
As the progression of this thread has upset me so, I can't use the words I'd like to, I had separate conversations this evening with both my wife and son. My wife, very antigun and antiviolence, my son, pushing 19 and pretty level headed, about the events of that evening. Both agreed I did nothing inappropriate, or exaggerated the situation. Both felt I was acting in their best interest and did nothing to escalate the situation.
To read this, it would seem like I pulled a gun on an unarmed idiot and threatened to shoot him. None of which happened. At no point did I interact with anyone other than the employee, at no point did I pull a gun, at no point did I threaten anyone. At no point did I even leave my table.
I'm sure it doesn't matter at this point, but I'm going to say it. Imagine being in a restaurant half full of black people, never mind the other races, like my wife and son, and some idiot stands up and screams "WHITE POWER!" Tell me you aren't instantly filled with fear? Tell me you aren't angry? Never mind half, or better, of the people waiting to get into the restaurant
are black as well.
Anyway, mods close this, it's turned into a hot mess. Ban me if you think it's in the best interest, but this is ridiculous.
Drum magazines on pistols......they are all crap. Period.
“You should tell someone what you know. There should be a history, so that men can learn from it.
He smiled. “Men do not learn from history. Each generation believes itself brighter than the last, each believes it can survive the mistakes of the older ones. Each discovers each old thing and they throw up their hands and say ‘See! Look what I have found! Look upon what I know!’ And each believes it is something new.
Louis L’Amour
The Californios
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