IMR Steel can rust, does it have any effect on burn rate?

[15meter]

I was setting up the Dillon yesterday to load some '06. I pulled out a factory sealed steel can of IMR-4895. When I poured it into the powder measure I was greeted by a nice cloud of red smoke. It smells like powder should, looks right, meters right.

Powder was stored in a heated/air conditioned basement since it was purchased. Exterior of the can is pristine.

I was planning on pouring the powder from one container to another outside in a light breeze to eliminate some of the rust.

Question is, does the rust effect burn rate? Organic dust can do some spectacular KABOOM kinda stuff, wheat will burn, wheat dust and or flour can level a 100 foot tall grain elevator.

Can rust have the same effect although on a much small scale inside a rifle cartridge?

Or am I Chicken Little this thing?

[T/A 6.6]

I had the same problem with IMR 4227. My fix was to pour it in a clean vibratory tumbler with a Swiffer pad borrowed from the cleanig supplies and let it go a few minutes. Came out looking normal. No issues on firing, all used up now.

[HWooldridge]

I was always told the red dust is the first sign of deterioration. I don't think it's dangerous, but velocity may not be optimal.

[Bent Ramrod]

I once was given a half-full drum of very old 4831 that was well-rusted inside.

Since the powder didn’t smell nitrous or acidic, didn’t clump together or otherwise seem off-spec, I did as you propose: stood outdoors on a breezy day with with one of those kitchen screen things with the handle. The screen was fine enough to retain the powder granules and with the wind and some jiggling, the rust fell out and blew away.

Once I got it all derusted, I put it in plastic powder bottles (relabeled) and used the powder for years to load .270, 7.7 Arisaka and such. Seemed to work fine, although there might still have been a little rust clinging to the granules. I filled the drum with water and used it as a target.

The rust is already oxidized iron. It’s organic dusts, finely dispersed in air, that explode. Iron oxide is a burn rate catalyst for ammonium perchlorate solid propellants, but I’ve not heard of it having the same effect on nitrocellulose based propellants.

I offer this as an example of what I did rather than as a recommendation for others. Everyone needs to manage their own risks using their own observations, experiences and judgement. I’m just not one of those “pour it on your tomato plants if it seems the least bit wrong” kind of people. Powder has to exhibit actual indications of decomposition or other problems before I decide it’s best gotten rid of without shooting it. But, of course, I use extra care in the load development, starting with minimum loads and checking for any problems before proceeding. I treat it as a separate powder, like the stuff people sell from demilled ammunition, and never mix the leftovers with other, better stored or characterized batches of the same powder.

[Recycled bullet]

See if the red dust is attracted to a magnet.

[35 Rem]

I had a full 8lb can of IMR 4320 that developed the dreaded red dust and the can rusted all the way through. It was sitting by another like can that was about half full too and did the same thing. For a while I did something similar to get rid of the dust. My method was to use two paper towels and I would dump a pile of the powder from one towel to the other, each time leaving a significant amount of the red dust behind. I kept using it to load 35 Remington for a while but finally decided to let caution win out and dumped well over 10 lbs of 4320 in the clover patch behind the house. Still makes me sick as it was such a perfect powder for my favorite cast hunting load in the 35. Maybe it could have been used safely but I'm no chemist and did not want to risk it.

[Texas by God]

Been there, done that with some IMR 4350.
I had a great sense of smell back then and I could detect a bit of iron smell(rust).
Outside in the wind, I poured it into a small coffee can.
Then I used it up in the .243, 30-30, and 30-40 shooting targets.
Nothing out of the ordinary occurred. Good accuracy, normal amount of noise.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I was given 3 steel cans of old IMR 4831 ...with the red dust, I deduced it was likely due to internal can rust.
Bent Ramrod's post reads about exactly as I found and experienced.

The biggest factor as to why I spent anytime as all on this rusty can powder, what what Bent said, "the powder didn’t smell nitrous or acidic, didn’t clump together or otherwise seem off-spec."

I derusted the powder and put it in plastic powder bottles.
I chose to load some j-words in 30-06 using a starting load and compared them to loads with fresh powder...I found them no different in report,recoil,accuracy. My chrono was along, but not enough light to work.

I once was given a half-full drum of very old 4831 that was well-rusted inside.

Since the powder didn’t smell nitrous or acidic, didn’t clump together or otherwise seem off-spec, I did as you propose: stood outdoors on a breezy day with with one of those kitchen screen things with the handle. The screen was fine enough to retain the powder granules and with the wind and some jiggling, the rust fell out and blew away.

Once I got it all derusted, I put it in plastic powder bottles (relabeled) and used the powder for years to load .270, 7.7 Arisaka and such. Seemed to work fine, although there might still have been a little rust clinging to the granules. I filled the drum with water and used it as a target.

The rust is already oxidized iron. It’s organic dusts, finely dispersed in air, that explode. Iron oxide is a burn rate catalyst for ammonium perchlorate solid propellants, but I’ve not heard of it having the same effect on nitrocellulose based propellants.

I offer this as an example of what I did rather than as a recommendation for others. Everyone needs to manage their own risks using their own observations, experiences and judgement. I’m just not one of those “pour it on your tomato plants if it seems the least bit wrong” kind of people. Powder has to exhibit actual indications of decomposition or other problems before I decide it’s best gotten rid of without shooting it. But, of course, I use extra care in the load development, starting with minimum loads and checking for any problems before proceeding. I treat it as a separate powder, like the stuff people sell from demilled ammunition, and never mix the leftovers with other, better stored or characterized batches of the same powder.

[15meter]

Did the out in the wind thing, about 6 times back and forth and the dust was gone, looked inside the can, it was clearly showing signs of rust.


It's all going to go BANG!

[Frosty Boolit]

I got a sealed can of imr 4198 that had the orange dust inside. I am a bit cheap and it is a powder I actually use so I really wanted to load it up. While I was thinking clearly and knew that I shouldn't use it as my face is worth more than a 1lb can of powder I burned it all before I could change my mind. Each into your own, manage your own risk etc... I just wanted to say that degrading powder can be burned and life goes on.

[john.k]

You can certainly use it.....but storage of the ammo is not wise .......after cleaning ,the powder will still keep disintegrating .

[dverna]

You can certainly use it.....but storage of the ammo is not wise .......after cleaning ,the powder will still keep disintegrating .

That is a good point.

[15meter]

You can certainly use it.....but storage of the ammo is not wise .......after cleaning ,the powder will still keep disintegrating .

But the powder shows no sign of deterioration. The can interior has definite rust. If I thought for a second the powder was going south, it would have been pitched. Or sold back to the guy I bought it from.

[turtlezx]

load and shoot repeat till gone dont load big batches or store it

[WRideout]

I was given a can of 4227 that had the red dust appearance. I just went ahead and loaded it into 357 mag cases with no ill effects.

Wayne

[groovy mike]

Just work up your load from book minimum and you should be fine.