Model 94 30-30 at 100 Yards. How?

[MSD MIke]

I see folks say they are shooting 2-3'' groups at 100 yards with their model 94's. Mine is (Mid 80's vintage) accurate at shorter ranges but the front sight more than covers a complete rifle target at 100 yards and I can barely keep it on the paper. Based on accuracy at shorter range I know the rifle can do better. So, my question is, are the guys shooting accurately at 100 yards doing it with factory sights? If so, what sight picture are you using? If using aftermarket sights, what are you using?
I am going to participate in some cast bullet rifle competitions at my local range and need to be able to hit 100-yard steel targets if I do my part.

Thanks
Mike

[35 Rem]

For most scopes are being used or if not then a peep sight of some sort. I put a Lyman peep on my Marlin 1894 to keep it looking more traditional. However for my other two lever actions that are used to deer hunt, they wear scopes because otherwise I would be very limited in range.

[ascast]

How old are you? I can wear the same glasses I bought in '96 without headaches. I would suggest a new front sight. Personally, I like a narrow flat top front sight.

[1006]

With the buckhorns-try sighting it in using a 6 O’Clock hold. That is what I do with my Model 94, but I am lucky to get a 2inch group at 100yards, it is usually more like 4 inches. My gun has bright red-orange fluorescent type paint on the front sight, and that also helps. If I am hunting from a stand or blind, I take gun with a scope. The iron sighted gun is just my walking around gun.

[Jackpine]

I shoot a lot of long range with iron sights, out as far as 1000 yards. With the right sight setup, especially with a target of good resolutin and the right size, accuracy approaching that with a scope is possible.

For me, first thing is to sight using six oclock hold on target, not covering target with front bead. On paper, bullseye of 6 to 8 inches gives best resolution. Replacing front sight with something like Lyman 17a. Depending on the target, especially if you can't get the best resolution, these tend to work well. Get the laser cut inserts from Lee Shaver are well worth the investment. They are cut with thinner circles, so they don't block out so much down range. When using them with the 17a you can stack two sights together to get a thicker circle if you so desire.

Peep sight, mounted as far back as possible will vastly improve things. I think tang sight is best. A vernier will give you much more longer distance options and better windage.

Finally, depending on your eyesight, glasses may be important. I have glasses that have the focal point at the front sight. That is a great help for me. The first time I tried to get glasses the guy was not a shooter and could not understand what I was trying to do, and the effort ended in failure. I went to the second and was explaining I wanted glasses with a focal point 36" out and immeadiatly said, "Oh, you want shooting glasses, I do those all the time." She also suggested I put a very narrow bifocal strip on the bottom, with maginifying, so I could more easily see the little lines on the vernier. Works great for me.

Good luck.

[pricedo]

I see folks say they are shooting 2-3'' groups at 100 yards with their model 94's. Mine is (Mid 80's vintage) accurate at shorter ranges but the front sight more than covers a complete rifle target at 100 yards and I can barely keep it on the paper. Based on accuracy at shorter range I know the rifle can do better. So, my question is, are the guys shooting accurately at 100 yards doing it with factory sights? If so, what sight picture are you using? If using aftermarket sights, what are you using?
I am going to participate in some cast bullet rifle competitions at my local range and need to be able to hit 100-yard steel targets if I do my part.

Thanks
Mike

I noticed over the years that there is often considerable difference in bragging groups "shot" in the bar or coffee shops and the groups shot on target paper at the range ... nuff said

[slam45]

i use an older redfield peep sight with a Skinner serrated blade front sight and a Merritt adjustable aperture in he rear sight...I'm 71 use glasses when shooting now but have on good days shot one of my pre '64 1894's into 1 to 1.5" at 100yd... and destroy small soup cans from 50 to around 125yd ... i do practice regularly and notice when i haven't been shooting often enough...

[freakonaleash]

The only way I'm shooting 2 to 3 inch groups is with a peep and a front rest. Off hand with a peep 6 inches or better.

[dverna]

I noticed over the years that there is often considerable difference in bragging groups "shot" in the bar or coffee shops and the groups shot on target paper at the range ... nuff said

Yep.

OP, some questions for you.

Are you using cast bullets? If so, how do jacketed bullets group?
How do you define "accuracy"?
Has another shooter tried your gun/ammo?

[pietro]

.

IME, for paper target work, a vast difference in accuracy can occur with any rifle with 2-piece stocks because of the way it's held @ the shooting bench.

I got the best accuracy from my leverguns by not let the rifle touch anything other than my hands & shoulder - taking care that my forward hand is under the forend on the front rest, and pulling the butt back solidly into my shoulder, ensuring the tip of the buttstock doesn't touch the benchtop when firing.

I put receiver peep sights and a fiber-optic front sight on all my leverguns except for my somewhat longer range BigBore .356, which got scoped.

Although these rifles are accurate enough for hunting, IMO it's an unreasonable expectation to think they should be as accurate as a target or bolt-action rifle.

Also, these guns can have things that vary between rifles, and should be taken into consideration - like tight/loose barrel bands, tight/loose forend fit to the barrel, and muzzle/crown issues.

.

[1006]

I should say: any accuracy claim from me refers to shooting from a rest…..

[MSD MIke]

I shoot a lot of long range with iron sights, out as far as 1000 yards. With the right sight setup, especially with a target of good resolutin and the right size, accuracy approaching that with a scope is possible.

For me, first thing is to sight using six oclock hold on target, not covering target with front bead. On paper, bullseye of 6 to 8 inches gives best resolution. Replacing front sight with something like Lyman 17a. Depending on the target, especially if you can't get the best resolution, these tend to work well. Get the laser cut inserts from Lee Shaver are well worth the investment. They are cut with thinner circles, so they don't block out so much down range. When using them with the 17a you can stack two sights together to get a thicker circle if you so desire.

Peep sight, mounted as far back as possible will vastly improve things. I think tang sight is best. A vernier will give you much more longer distance options and better windage.

Finally, depending on your eyesight, glasses may be important. I have glasses that have the focal point at the front sight. That is a great help for me. The first time I tried to get glasses the guy was not a shooter and could not understand what I was trying to do, and the effort ended in failure. I went to the second and was explaining I wanted glasses with a focal point 36" out and immeadiatly said, "Oh, you want shooting glasses, I do those all the time." She also suggested I put a very narrow bifocal strip on the bottom, with maginifying, so I could more easily see the little lines on the vernier. Works great for me.

Good luck.

Thanks, Jackpine, I think a sight change may be in order. I can shoot with decent accuracy out to 100 yards with the peep sights on my 03A3. The front on the 94 just completely covers any target at that range. I like the six o'clock hold option other than I run out of sight adjustment with my cast bullet loads. My jacketed loads hit higher, and I can probably make it work with those. The glasses thing, ya I am working through that now. Even so, the peeps on the 03A3 work for me so I think a sight change might help.

[MSD MIke]

Yep.

OP, some questions for you.

Are you using cast bullets? If so, how do jacketed bullets group?
How do you define "accuracy"?
Has another shooter tried your gun/ammo?

Shooting cast or jacketed are similar but with significantly different POI.
For this rifle, my accuracy standard is to be able to hit a gallon milk jug at 100 yards. Right now, I can't see it due to the front sight covering it up. Can't use a six o'clock hold because I don't have enough sight adjustment (With cast) to do that without shooting low, even at 50 yards.
No other shooter has tried my gun and load combo. Not at 100 yards anyway. I'll let one of the guys at the range try it out. There are several that are pretty good with leverguns.
I think if I can find a narrower front sight that would help enough that I could work on my technique and practice.

Thanks
Mike

[MSD MIke]

How old are you? I can wear the same glasses I bought in '96 without headaches. I would suggest a new front sight. Personally, I like a narrow flat top front sight.

58 and I don't see as well as I used to for sure. Any suggestions on a source for a front sight light you suggest?

Thank,

Mike

[kungfustyle]

http://www.skinnersights.com/front_sights_5.html
These will work and you can shape them any way you want. I made a point with my sight, like a Mauser front sight. And two inches is very doable with my Winchester. Best of luck.

[smorin2]

I put a Skinner peep sight on my Henry and it greatly improved my groups. I spoke to the folks at Skinner and they got me the proper height front sight as well. I'd highly recommend their sights. I'm past 60 now and the peep helps at 100 yds. which is my limit.

[pricedo]

I get consistent 2" or less 3-shot groups at 50 yds off the bench with my Marlin 336SS in 30-30 Win using a Holosun HS510C red dot ... the same load will shrink to 1" or less 3-shot groups @50yds with the Leupold Ultralight VX-2 2-7x28 scope mounted on the same Picatinny rail ... both the red dot and scope are on QD mounts and I can switch them without either losing "0" ... I can barely see the iron sights on the rifle unaided by an optic.

[M-Tecs]

When using iron sights the front sight must be crystal clear and the point of focus. That means the target will be somewhat out of focus yet of a type that allows you to have a repeatable point of aim. Changing the rear to a peep should also help.

The better NRA Service rifle shooters can hold 1 MOA out to 1,000 yards with a post front sight and a peep type rear.

[MSD MIke]

Any thoughts on the Williams front sights with changeable inserts?

Thanks
Mike

[BoBSavage]

58 and I don't see as well as I used to for sure. Any suggestions on a source for a front sight light you suggest?

Thank,

Mike

I had to switch to a scope on all my rifles a few years ago. Age hurts!