I've noticed a number of threads on the 45-70, and got to wondering....has anyone fiddled with the idea of cat sneeze sound level loads that would consistently kill a deer up to 100 yards?
I've noticed a number of threads on the 45-70, and got to wondering....has anyone fiddled with the idea of cat sneeze sound level loads that would consistently kill a deer up to 100 yards?
Chicken Little has finally found an audience
Try keyword “collar button”. Lots of reading material.
I would go the other way for something to kill deer out to a hundred yards. I would want bullets no less than 300 grains with the 400 and 500 being preferred. Some loads bellow.
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...iet-45-70-load
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W/o the use of a suppressor, nothing is going to be an effective "cat's sneeze" load that will be effective on deer out to 100 yards. Perhaps to 50 yards though. I push a 210 gr Rapine 460210 at 950 fps out of my TDs. Loaded over just 6 gr of Bullseye it is relatively quiet. However, it loses accuracy beyond 50 yards. My load with the 2750 gr Rapine 460250 over 8 gr Bullseye runs 1050 fps and would, indeed, be effective on deer at 100 yards. However, the noise level is similar to a 45 ACP out of a 5" pistol.
Larry Gibson
“Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
― Nikola Tesla
Get the longest barrel that you can and then test a bunch of different powders and bullets.
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I am going to agree with Larry on the cat sneeze load and deer, wrong tool for the job. That said I load 12 grains of Unique under a 300-350 grain boolit. These run 1100-1150fps and are pretty quiet out of my 26" 1886 and 30" Sharps. Use these for shorter range gong matches out to 250-300 yards. My load for deer is the Lyman/Gould hollow point, cast soft over 30 grains of 5744 and is very effective.
I was actually contemplating something along the lines of a 405 flat point at barely subsonic speed, a fast powder that will burn out in 32 inches, (Buffalo classic), and a near dead soft bullet. I've fiddled with cat sneezes in the thirty caliber range, but the idea of a big heavy bullet that doesn't make a big bang is intriguing. I'm not looking for silencer level noise, but something that doesn't rattle the whole forest!
Chicken Little has finally found an audience
Try starting with Unique at 8 gr and work up to 10.5 gr. No filler or wad.
Larry Gibson
“Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
― Nikola Tesla
I have not I do load a Lee R.E.A.L. 200 grain bullet sized .457" over 5 grains of Red Dot (+ filler) I get 850 f/s and tight 25 yard groups basically making it a .45 acp load to light for deer for my thinking. It does shoot point of aim at 25 yards with my Marlin sighted at 100 yards with modern hunting load .
IF for some reason I needed a heavy deer load that was quiet a heavy bullet at 1000 f/s would be a good choice but remember you are going to have a rainbow trajectory .
When I think back on all the **** I learned in high school it's a wonder I can think at all ! And then my lack of education hasn't hurt me none I can read the writing on the wall.
Red Dot, 300 gr bullet and start at 10 grains and work down to 6 or so.
Going to have some rainbow, but it should do it and be fairly quiet.
I have shot a fair amount of .444marlin at 6.5 grains of Red Dot under a 240 gr cast and it is not near as loud as a full case of slower powder.
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I'd love to have a Collar Button mold but they always seem to be out of stock when I can afford one...
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Cat sneeze might be a matter of who hears what. 65 gr of Lord Black and a 500 grain bullet is not loud to the recipient if properly placed.
I have danced with the Devil. She had excellent attorneys.
Haha! I guess that could be true, especially if the distance was a couple hundred yards or more.
Running the ridges and riding the rivers of the Southwest Virginia Appalachians
You need to buy a suppressor, buy it now and a year from now you can enjoy it.
I wish I had done it long ago, I didn't because of all the hype about them being removed from the NFA.
I finally realized that dog would never hunt, so I bought one that works on everything .45-70 on down.
Now I have two more in ATF jail.
Of course, if you are in one of the unlucky states, you're stuck.
There is always big bore PCP, but that may be loud too, I don't know, I have no experience with those.
For fast powders, here is a sample of Quickload estimates. Note that I have the data sorted with lowest muzzle pressure on top.
Note also that I ran it at 1100 fps. Quickload has a problem finding a solution for some powders if the selected velocity is too low. To stay subsonic, you will probably need to drop charges between 1 and 2 gr. If I was doing this experiment I would start at say 0.5 below the charge shown and load a ladder down to find where the crack goes away. Then load say 0.2 grs below that to make sure individual rounds stay subsonic.
Code:Bullet : .457, 405, LYM LFN 457193 Useable Case Capaci: 54.841 grain H2O = 3.561 cm³ Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.550 inch = 64.77 mm Barrel Length : 32.0 inch = 812.8 mm Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders. Matching Muzzle Velocity: 1100 fps or 335 m/s These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window. C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations. USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON ! Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time % Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms --------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Vihtavuori N310 36.1 10.6 0.69 1100 100.0 22844 540 2.976 Vihtavuori N32C Tin Star 57.8 14.6 0.94 1100 100.0 21938 540 3.003 Hodgdon Clays 44.3 10.7 0.69 1100 100.0 23604 544 2.945 IMR TrailBoss 85.5 14.6 0.94 1100 100.0 20663 547 3.020 Norma R1 44.9 11.5 0.74 1100 100.0 21220 560 3.003 Hodgdon TiteGroup 27.6 11.4 0.74 1100 100.0 19642 561 3.025 Accurate Solo 1000 39.0 10.9 0.71 1100 100.0 19309 564 3.024 Vihtavuori N320 37.1 11.0 0.71 1100 100.0 18608 564 3.065 Alliant RED DOT 41.1 10.3 0.67 1100 100.0 19541 570 3.032 Alliant GREEN DOT 38.3 10.8 0.70 1100 100.0 18148 575 3.055 Hodgdon HP38 27.3 11.5 0.75 1100 100.0 17255 576 3.084 Accurate Solo 1250 37.8 11.4 0.74 1100 100.0 16404 579 3.114 Accurate Nitro 100 37.6 9.9 0.64 1100 100.0 18310 581 3.050 Ramshot Zip 27.2 11.6 0.75 1100 100.0 16865 581 3.096 Shooters World Sparta 100 37.6 9.9 0.64 1100 100.0 18310 581 3.050 Winchester 231 30.3 11.6 0.75 1100 100.0 16865 581 3.096 Shooters World Clean Shot 25.2 10.7 0.69 1100 100.0 16596 584 3.093 Vihtavuori N330 34.5 11.4 0.74 1100 100.0 15848 590 3.151 Hodgdon Universal 33.8 11.0 0.71 1100 100.0 15621 598 3.142 Vihtavuori N340 34.4 11.5 0.75 1100 100.0 14109 608 3.198 Shooters World Ultimate Pistol 21.4 10.7 0.69 1100 100.0 14085 615 3.191 Accurate No.2 32.8 11.0 0.71 1100 100.0 13857 617 3.190 Alliant UNIQUE 33.1 10.8 0.70 1100 100.0 13173 629 3.241 Ramshot Silhouette 27.3 12.0 0.78 1100 100.0 12956 633 3.248 Winchester WAP 27.3 12.0 0.78 1100 100.0 12878 634 3.251 Alliant HERCO 35.9 11.4 0.74 1100 100.0 12045 655 3.303 Winchester 540 24.1 12.6 0.81 1100 100.0 11769 655 3.312 Ramshot True Blue 24.5 12.6 0.81 1100 100.0 11739 656 3.314 Hodgdon Longshot 24.7 12.5 0.81 1100 100.0 11563 661 3.329 Vihtavuori N350 33.3 12.3 0.80 1100 100.0 11398 665 3.345 Vihtavuori 3N37 31.6 12.3 0.80 1100 100.0 11207 673 3.362 Hodgdon HS-6 25.5 12.8 0.83 1100 100.0 11150 674 3.354 Accurate No.5 22.5 11.8 0.76 1100 100.0 10520 703 3.392 Shooters World Auto Pistol 22.5 11.8 0.76 1100 100.0 10512 704 3.393 Alliant POWER PISTOL 27.7 11.1 0.72 1100 100.0 9252 772 3.515
Last edited by P Flados; 10-13-2023 at 07:23 PM.
Have a TC 45 cal. maxi ball mould, cast of stick on ww, seated flush, 5gr bullseye in a 18 inch 45/70 is pretty effective out to 50yds on 120ish pound deer and hogs. And its pretty quiet.
Have killed (cleanly) two deer with lung shots at around 100yrds using 330gr grain Gould cast boolits and 10 grains of Unique. Both deere made about 5-6 quick steps before falling over and were dead when I walked to them. I have a friend who has killed many deer using an 11gr load, we both use antique Winchester 1886 rifles with 26 inch octagon barrels. Of course boolit placement is critical and both of our rifles and loads are just that, accurate and concistant shot to shot. Our ammo is loaded using a toilet paper wad on the powder.
One of my favorite and economical 45-70 loads is 12gr of Bullseye behind a rcbs 405 gr boolit at right around 1100 fps.
Paco Kelly had a lot of cat sneeze loads. The key is heavy for caliber and long barrels. He expected the max range to be 20-25 yards usefulness. I don't think you're getting to 100 yards without a can.
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