Why different alloys for BP

[indian joe]

Yup! [big grin} you go soft enough and the bullet reforms into a wad cutter.

hmmm --I have a slab of linotype lurking about someplace might be time to use a bit of it in the pot !
Thanks ....

[Chill Wills]

I have been told you can just throw some blue pills in the lead pot.

[Lead pot]

learning is fun sometimes -----like Chill Wills I am amazed at the imagination - the stuff you do to figure things out - dunno how old you are but for sure there is a big kid hiding in there someplace !!!

we shot lube cookies under the ball in a army colt one time, they turned into tracer rounds and lit the paper target on fire (not kiddin) -walker with a full charge wouldnt do it - fun but kinda hazardous in our climate

You have to quit thinning that lube with the 180 proof corn

Knocking on the door of 85 in a couple days, but between the ears I'm still 26
A little Lino is a good thing. It holds the profile very well. I found anything over 1/16 lead tin is a waste of tin. My alloy I use 1/18 that is a 1# roll of 95/5 no lead solder with 18# lead. sometimes I use 1/16.
Been using the solder because when I retired from the Plumbing trade 23 years ago I had a bunch unused left on the shelves

[indian joe]

I have been told you can just throw some blue pills in the lead pot.

havent tried them yet --- done the red pill thing ages ago

[indian joe]

You have to quit thinning that lube with the 180 proof corn
nah that woulda helped I think - lube cake was sticky enough to hang off the back end of the ball - nothin fancy just beeswax and neatsfoot but FF powder and I bet some grains of that got absorbed into the cake

Knocking on the door of 85 in a couple days, but between the ears I'm still 26

I've got ten years and a couple months on you but thats just a number - its the between the ears bit that counts

A little Lino is a good thing. It holds the profile very well. I found anything over 1/16 lead tin is a waste of tin. My alloy I use 1/18 that is a 1# roll of 95/5 no lead solder with 18# lead. sometimes I use 1/16.
Been using the solder because when I retired from the Plumbing trade 23 years ago I had a bunch unused left on the shelves

a mate gave me a two foot bar of lino (50 pound I think) still got most of it

[Larry Gibson]

hmmm --I have a slab of linotype lurking about someplace might be time to use a bit of it in the pot !
Thanks ....

Linotype is very rich in antimony. The last thing you want in a BP alloy is antimony. You are adding about twice as much antimony to the alloy as tin if you do that. Same thing with adding COWWs only to a much lessor degree. Tin is all you want to add to lead for a BP alloy.

[Chill Wills]

Linotype is very rich in antimony. The last thing you want in a BP alloy is antimony. You are adding about twice as much antimony to the alloy as tin if you do that. Same thing with adding COWWs only to a much lessor degree. Tin is all you want to add to lead for a BP alloy.

I couldn't disagree more. That idea is 100% demonstrably wrong.

[Lead pot]

Oh come on guys Some shooters that have posted in the past and said that antimony was poison shooting black powder are turning around D
When bullets with a mix of lead/tin/antimony clear the muzzle looking like the straight shank and the DD and they don't hit the point of aim, it's not the bullets fault.

[Don McDowell]

I recall in the early 2000's a bunch of accolades went to BPTR shooters shooting straight wheel weights. There are a couple of alloy recipes that use wheel weights and a touch of lino, along with lead that has a good reputation. I have shot some lino hardball alloy in the bpcr's but bullet sizing and matching diameter to the throats is critical coupled with a great lube, or you can get some leading.
Joe try a touch of lino in your alloy if you have it, you might just find that it works a plumb.

[Lead pot]

I shoot with a friend that uses a mix of 9+1 WW/Lino a very hard alloy rich in antimony and I seen him shoot a 99 at 800 using his .40-65. The last shot missed the 10 ring by less than 3/4" cant remember the holes through the X ring but close to the same that went into the 10 ring.
My 95/5 no lead solder is running out and I will most likely get any more for what it costs now compared to the $5 $6 I paid for it 24 years ago but on the good side my Son gave me 600 pounds or more of dip solder scrap from where he works and I have several buckets of old WW left in the shed that will get used when my alloy runs out I'm using now. But it will be a while, still have a couple hundred lbs I ingots left.
Larry looking at your avatar, I see that you carried that pig also.

[Larry Gibson]

"Larry looking at your avatar, I see that you carried that pig also."

Yup, sure did, among numerous other weapons. The M60....what's not to love......

[indian joe]

I recall in the early 2000's a bunch of accolades went to BPTR shooters shooting straight wheel weights. There are a couple of alloy recipes that use wheel weights and a touch of lino, along with lead that has a good reputation. I have shot some lino hardball alloy in the bpcr's but bullet sizing and matching diameter to the throats is critical coupled with a great lube, or you can get some leading.
Joe try a touch of lino in your alloy if you have it, you might just find that it works a plumb.

I'm cheap - solder is real expensive - ww was free - as was our soft lead - and the lino
mostly we have shot WW + little bit of lino + however much soft lead it took to soften the mix to 3B pencil - by the sound of it I need to go harder than that ?
Accuracy has been good at shorter ranges (100-200yards) - had some problems further out - the LEE 500 3 R gets the wobbles in wind at about 400-450 - figured that was partly lack of twist as much as the profile (shooting it in a 20twist) I have put that one away, as much as I liked the flatter trajectory it brought, gone to a 460 grain CBE that looks a copy of the Lyman postell shape (which seems not really a Postell at all) Just enough lube on the CBE to do the job = 28 inch barrel '76 winchester and my sharps has also been shortened to 28"
A lesson I learnt years ago with a 22/250 and long bullets - if you are standing at the edge of the cliff with bullet stability it takes very little change to go from bullseyes to catastrophic failure - that pointy LEE is edge of the cliff !

[Don McDowell]

Joe if you're not shooting past lets say 500 yards/meters, staying on the softer side of alloys probably doesn't hurt much. It's when you start stretching out beyond that that a good rigid bullet that holds nose shape gets important. I think the biggest problem with the Lee bullet is it's simply not quite balanced with those 3 lube rings. If a person is looking for a similar profile bullet there are a couple I've experience with that will do well in a 45-70 to 1000 yards, when cast from 16-1 or even #2 alloy or similar, are the 525 gr money bullet from BACO and their original postel copied directly from an original Ideal bullet mould from 1882. Keeping in mind the original postel was designed to make the trapdoor rifles competitive to 1000 yards. Not sure where in the progression of the reinterest in bpcr that dead soft alloys became the standard, but heck even the govt manual for the Springfield rifle and Colt revolver call for bullets alloyed at 16-1. Remington concludes in their 1875 catalog that bullets from hard alloy will do better when shooting long range than the soft alloy. Looking thru the 1878 Winchester catalog it is intesting to see the various cartridges listed there with powder charge and bullet content, with quite a few of surprisingly use 11-1 for alloy.
In your 76 the Saeco 645 bullet might prove to be a quite a good bullet.
Bottom line is if you have the linotype available, throwing a little bit in the mix may or may not hurt, and it may just help a struggling bullet. One just doesn't know till you try it.

[beltfed]

A picture is worth a thousand words:
What Lead Pot said:
9+1 COWW//Lino bullets at 800yds:

beltfed/arnie

[indian joe]

thanks Don --500 - 600yards is about all I will do I think and that not often in competition - have the room to play at home but I get some frustrated going back and forth to the target - eyes and scope not up to confidently spotting holes anymore.....................................

[Don McDowell]

Joe that's one of the reasons I really like my Caldwell target camera. It will give you a good picture of the target even at 1000 yards. They say it will work up to a mile but I've never tried it.

[freakonaleash]

thanks Don --500 - 600yards is about all I will do I think and that not often in competition - have the room to play at home but I get some frustrated going back and forth to the target - eyes and scope not up to confidently spotting holes anymore.....................................

I drive my tractor back and forth.

[Larry Gibson]

Sure you can shoot cast bullets in BPC firearms that have antimony in the alloy, never said you couldn't. What often happens when you do is leading. Such appears to be somewhat common these days as expressed in https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...ting-some-lead. My experience is I get zero leading with a binary alloy of lead/tin. I have shot 100+ rounds w/o wiping or cleaning of duplex loaded 45-70s with 20-1 or 16-1 alloys out of all three of my TDs w/o one speck of leading. I have frequently fired 20+ rounds out of my M1884 TD of a replicant 1882 load w/o wiping or cleaning with zero leading. As soon as I try a ternary alloy of lead/tin/antimony I get leading. That also is the experience of many old timers from whom I learned not to use a ternary alloy with antimony in it.

[Lead pot]

What is helping you with the TD is the slow twist and the transition from the chamber into the throat. I have a couple trapdoors with good bores and they shoot just fine, but I find some lead fouling when I clean them. I use the Gov. and posters bullets mostly cast with 1/20 T/L alloy in the Trapdoors and mostly shoot dirty (load/shoot and repeat )

[Larry Gibson]

Don't know about your TDs but mine and all I've looked at has little, if any, "throat". Mostly the leade comes right up to the chamber mouth or very close to it. Any transition of the bullet from case/chamber to that leade is rather abrupt. What I do know is with both original TDs, my two H&R TDs and a couple replica Sharps, RB and '85s I shot is that if there is any antimony in the alloy then some leading [mostly long streaks of it] can be expected with BP loads.

With my 1873 45-70 loads with Lee 405 HB bullets or my M1884 with a Rapine 460500 bullet loads I've settled on the 16-1 alloy Frankford arsenal found best back then. For my 45-55 Carbine loads with the Lee 405 HB bullet I fall back to a softer 30-1 alloy. My BP lube is simply 6 parts beeswax to 5 parts virgin olive oil.