Winchester AA hulls and move to upper class

[foesgth]

Well guys,
I am becoming one of the elite! A buddy of mine moved out of the area and sold me his 12 ga. MEC Grabber. Yep, I am up there with the rest of the billionaires. No more beat up old MEC 650 for this boy.

I usually load Remington hulls. My wife says I look good in green. But, with the press he gave me two huge bags of AA hulls. The only thing I have used AA hulls is 410. So here is the question.

I read about old and new style AA hulls. How do you tell a new AA hull from an old AA hull? And how much difference does it make in loading?

As always your help is appreciated.

Any one need a beat up old 650?

[BK7saum]

New style hulls are a 2 piece or have a white spacer in bottom that comes up the inside wall ½" or so.

[M-Tecs]

https://www.ballisticproducts.com/bp...NewAAhull1.htm

What is the difference between the
Original Winchester AA and the new "High Strength" hulls?

The new Winchester target hull is a wholly new type TWO-section hull. The base and internal new piece REPLACES the smooth inner surface of the older WAA type hull creating a thick ridge in the lower portion of the hull.

oldaainter_web.JPG (9035 bytes)

newhull-base_web.JPG (9260 bytes)

wadheight_web.JPG (18329 bytes)

The 'original' Winchester® tapered AA® hull (note that the wall of the hull thickens toward the base)

The new AA High Strength® hulls

Winchester advises that the original Win AA and the new Win AA-HS hulls are interchangeable. In the general sense of speed and pressure this may be true. However, there are some fit and finish concerns (see above) that require attention.


Loading Notes:
The NEW Winchester AA® hull (refered to as "High Strength™" or "HS" by Winchester) is a three-piece Reifenhauser type design. It consists of a brass head, an inner tapered base resembling a plastic cup and a straight length of extruded plastic tubing.

AA® Architecture: The AA-HS averages 2.7" in overall length. The distance from the mouth to the top edge of the inner-base cup is 1.9". This allows for a maximum wad length of 1.4" (with a 0.5"crimp depth) with a bit of wad compression. (Note: Wad compression does not consist of ramming the wad into the hull with thirty pounds (or more) pressure. Minor wad pressure of no more than ten pounds should be required.)

Winchester advises that the original Win AA and the new Win AA-HS hulls are interchangeable. In the general sense of speed and pressure this may be true. However, there are some fit and finish concerns that require attention and different, accomodating components.

At the base of the AA-HS is a .020" thick rim edge where the inner-base cup meets the plastic tube. The ridge catches the gas seal of many types of wads – stopping the wad from progressing deeper into the hull. This prevents the gas seal from seating directly on the powder, which is required for proper load combustion. For this reason, the AA-HS requires new loading information, outlined here with specific wad recommendations.

Reloaders note: You must identify which AA hull the reloading data refers.

[MrWolf]

Swap them for Remington hulls. Much easier on ya. I also preferred the green over the red AA. Good luck.
Ron

[Hogtamer]

The company and reloading manuals say it is to use the same data for both. Loads that crimp perfectly on the HS hulls will dish a bit on the old AA hulls but not enough to require a different wad. I will buy them if you’re looking to move them.

[foesgth]

The company and reloading manuals say it is to use the same data for both. Loads that crimp perfectly on the HS hulls will dish a bit on the old AA hulls but not enough to require a different wad. I will buy them if you’re looking to move them.

I think you still have a potential bill of several million dollars and a lunch for the last hulls I sent you! Are you still at the same address in Appling?

[Hogtamer]

Been waiting for you to drop by!

[Johnch]

For trap or skeet loads the new or old AA hulls work great

But for hunting loads there are IMO better choices as the AA hulls have less case cappasity , the Remington hulls work better also
I use a lot of the Federal HighPower hulls ( Top Gun , Estate ) , Federal Gold Medal or Fiocchi

Fiocchi primers are slightly larger than USA made primers
But Balistic products sells a tool to take care of that slight problem

If you get a chance
Upgrade to a MEC 9000G
A even better and faster press

John

[Scorpion8]

I find in my shotshell reloading that it is best to stick with a single (or similar) hull. I load almost exclusively Gun Clubs and STS hulls. Even (oddly) the Nitro27's give me a slightly different stack height and thus crimp for the exact same load data. I found this out way back when reloading Top Guns and the pink, blue and white gave me great results, but the maroon/red (if mixed in) produced crappy crimps. Switching back and forth between Win & Remington hulls means the one thing that I try to avoid at all costs which is constant adjustments to the loader (2 different 366's). When I want to do different hulls, I take them to a different machine, of which I sadly have a large collection of obsolete but entirely-still-useful single stage machines.

However, another hull that loads identical to the Gun Club and produces the most superb crimp ever is the old Federal Champion II's, Federal's only tapered hull until the merger/conglomeration with Remington ammunition.

Stick to one line of hulls, you'll be much happier. And that Grabber isn't much different than a 650. Enjoy!

[Scorpion8]

I find in my shotshell reloading that it is best to stick with a single (or similar) hull. I load almost exclusively Gun Clubs and STS hulls. Even (oddly) the Nitro27's give me a slightly different stack height and thus crimp for the exact same load data. I found this out way back when reloading Top Guns and the pink, blue and white gave me great results, but the maroon/red (if mixed in) produced crappy crimps. Switching back and forth between Win & Remington hulls means the one thing that I try to avoid at all costs which is constant adjustments to the loader (2 different 366's). When I want to do different hulls, I take them to a different machine, of which I sadly have a large collection of obsolete but entirely-still-useful single stage machines.

However, another hull that loads identical to the Gun Club and produces the most superb crimp ever is the old Federal Champion II's, Federal's only tapered hull until the merger/conglomeration with Remington ammunition.

Stick to one line of hulls, you'll be much happier. And that Grabber isn't much different than a 650. Enjoy!

[Half Dog]

I use the AA-HS hulls. The earlier AA hulls has an issue with the base coming out and potentially creating a barrel obstruction. The problem was fixed by using a different plastic for the base and a different crimping method. The shotgun forums talk about the issue and recommend not reloading the older AA hulls unless you check the barrel after each shot.

[farmbif]

I grew up on the AA hulls, never had one come apart. they split starting at the top after quite a few loadings just like any other plastic shotgun shell. if you have a large quantity I say use them till they are no longer usable there is lots of great load data thats available for them.

[square butte]

I was loading the old style Winchester AA compression formed hulls when I was in High School - That was more than half a hundred years ago. I am still loading some of the 20 gauge hulls from the late 60's. Never had any of them come apart. They do begin to split at the crimp star after a while. Once in a while, if I find someone with once fired, I will buy them - And suspect they will be sitting on someone else's loading bench after I am gone - That is if anyone is still smart enough or remembers how good they are by then

[M-Tecs]

The original AA compression formed hull was/is one piece. Winchester changed the plastic formula several times during it usage. The claim was Winchester thought they were losing sales since the original could be loaded so many times. I do know AA hull from the late 60's early 70's could be loaded 20 plus times. In the mid 70's after reformulated plastic 3 or 4 times was about it. Some would crack on the first firing. Later they improved hull life for reloading but never like the originals. The originals would never crack but the crimp folds would turn black and get thinner the more you loaded them until a chunk of the crimp tore off.

The compression formed hulls by design could not have a base separation issue. Once Winchester switched to the multiple piece design it became an issue. The hulls that have this issue are first generation multiple piece AA's not marked with HS. Once Winchester correct the issue that started stamping them with the HS.

If my memory is correct the multiple design came about a little over 20 years ago.

[MOA]

The .new Winchester AA High Strength hulls have a HS stamped on the base to the right of Winchester stamping, and opposite the AA stamping. About 3 o'clock