6.8 spc brass to 5.45 x 39

[BK7saum]

You also need to do a chamber cast or at least measure a fired factory brass case outside neck diameter and compare to a loaded case before you shoot any. If OD of the loaded neck is close to OD of fired case neck, you will have to neck turn. .350 to .5.45mm is a lot of neck sizing and neck walls will be thicker. Too thick, likely, but measure first so you don't kaboom your rifle.

[BK7saum]

I had a couple of issues forming 423 Dakota to 300 Norma improved. One, a lack of intermediate dies for cases with. 590 base and annealing at an inopportune step. I collapsed a few shoulders trying to figure out the process. At thr time, the 423 Dakota was bought cheap on closeout and 300 Norma was non-existent to buy. In the end, the cases worked well after ironing out the case forming process. Some pistol and bullet sizing dies were also utilized in reducing the neck diameter.

[rrob692326]

Thanks all, got a bit carried away and bought too many dies it would seem I got a 350 Legend, 338 win mag, 340 Ultra, 8mm Mauser, 30-06 set and another sizer, 30/30 Win, 6.8SPC 25-06 set, 6mm, 222mag, along with the 220 Swift neck reaming die and custom .220 reamer and a couple more duplicates, as I seem to have had a little too much scotch one evening while shopping! When I cut everything down to size and the custom Hornady form set gets here I will have one of my sons help me with pics.
PS
Bk yer Kona coffee is on da way, enjoy.

[mace2364]

This is a little bit late, but maybe it’ll help anyway.

I have converted .222 and .223/5.56mm to 5.45, and while it’s not ideal, it did give me shootable ammo. I know people who do load these cases with full power loads and had no problems, but I have not.

I started messing with converting .350 legend cases. The ones I messed with need to be neck turned. And I haven’t gotten back around to that project yet. A different brand may not, I don’t know. I didn’t step the cases down. I think I went straight into the 5.45 die. But I have no idea as to what kind of case life I’ll get yet.

[ebb]

Could you just convert the rifle to 223?

[barnetmill]

Could you just convert the rifle to 223?

recamber to .223
The bore size if different.
Bullet diameter 5.60 mm (0.220 in)
Land diameter 5.40 mm (0.213 in)
But one could reload with .220 bullets if you can find them load it. You would have to polish down the .224 expander to .220.
This assumes that the rest of the chamber is compatible and my reading of the chamber drawings say it is not.

[ebb]

I didn't say rebore, rebarrel. I think (may be wrong) that many of the rifles were available in both chamberings. Is it possible a 223 barrel could be bought from the same manufacturer that made the rifle? I am sure a new barrel could be made. One of the range officers and another shooter where I shoot are making their own ammo. I don't know if they are using the original steel cases of 223 cases.

[barnetmill]

I didn't say rebore, rebarrel. I think (may be wrong) that many of the rifles were available in both chamberings. Is it possible a 223 barrel could be bought from the same manufacturer that made the rifle? I am sure a new barrel could be made. One of the range officers and another shooter where I shoot are making their own ammo. I don't know if they are using the original steel cases of 223 cases.

For an AK74 first see if the magazine will work with a 5.56 ammo. If not, see if there are magazines available that will function for the AK74. There are AKs out there in .223/5.56. You do want a 5.56 chamber and not the throating used for the .223.

[ebb]

The magazines are why I never wanted anything but an AR or a 7.62 AK. KISS no expensive mags.

[barnetmill]

The magazines are why I never wanted anything but an AR or a 7.62 AK. KISS no expensive mags.

I have a 7.62x39 AR and the magazines are fine. My 6.5g AR also uses different magazines.

[atfsux]

Those of us who have been at this a while have lived long enough to see how things go up or down in value as availability changes.

In the 90s 5.45x39 rifles were expensive and so was the ammo because they were "exotic". But as we entered the 2000s (and especially after the expiration of the AWB in 2004), suddenly there was a flood of 5.45x39 guns and ammo as the former combloc countries tried to turn their surplus into cash. AK kits were just $100 at one point. While the cost of 5.56Nato ammo went up because we were expending so much of it on the battlefield, 5.45x39 was the cheapest option then. That's when I built my Polish Tantal, so I could blast away nearly as cheaply as we used to in the 90s with 7.62x39 when cheap Chinese ammo was just 8 cents a round. (Those were the days, baby!)

But was always bummed that there were never any components available for loading 5.45x39, so I started looking 5.56Nato AKs. I had a Chinese one, but those had gone up in value so much, I didn't want to shoot it. I finally plunked down the far too large a chunk of change ($775) to buy an Arsenal SLR106F, because as cheap as 5.45x39 was in 2007, I could still load 5.56 cheaper, by just a hair. 5.45 AK74s sold for just a little bit more than the hard-to-find 5.56 models because factory 5.56 was more expensive. The vast majority of AKs were still 7.62x39 partly because people liked the larger bullet, but also there was such a crap ton of surplus ammo for them across the globe, costs were low.

But now how the tides have turned.

The GWOT ended, and so did the rate of 5.56 consumption in the field. Production had caught up and stockpiles had been replenished, so it was affordable again. Sanctions on Russia had made sourcing 5.45x39 more difficult, therefor more expensive. (Same with 7.62x54R to a lesser extent.)

But then came the 2nd invasion of Ukraine, and NATO kicked into overdrive to back the Ukies. Now every European ammo fabricator prioritized production and delivery for the war effort. Anyone previously fabricating 5.45x39, 7.62x39 or 7.62x54R ceased nearly all domestic sales and diverted to Kiev. And all of this just as the ammo panic buying shortages from the pandemic were beginning to abate. Even die hard 7.62 AK guys were starting to seriously consider 5.56 models, and in fact been since the Russian sanctions had caused problems for a few years already.

So now, my Bulgarian 5.56 AK is worth over $2000 (according to Gunbroker), while my kit-built Polish Tantal will barely bring $1200.

But nothing stays the same.

The war in Ukraine will end. And as they convert fully over to Nato weaponry, all the former Russian stuff will be eventually surplussed out. 5.45 AK74 kits will one day be dirt cheap again, and all that 5.45 ammo will be on the market,...cheap. One of the first industries Ukraine will be able to use to bring in cash after the war will be firing up the ammo production lines at UKROP to export everything they're not stockpiling for themselves. Not within 5 years, mind you, or perhaps even 10. Even if the Russians retreated tomorrow, it will take many years of massive spending to bring Ukraine's military back up to where it needs to be for the next attempt. And when that happens, suddenly AK74 kits and ammo will make it all affordable again. 7.62x39 and 7.62x54R will recover long before that.

AKs used to be dirt cheap when the parts were easily obtained as surplus or made by cheap eastern bloc labor on original tooling. American manufacturers are only now finally beginning to figure out the appropriate bits that can be made with cheap automation and which still require manned forging and machining steps. This means American AKs are now finally approaching the reliability and durability of the originals,...but at prices reflecting the cost of American labor; which is why ARs are so affordable compared to AKs now.


When the ammo supply of 5.45 returns, you'll be happy you held onto your rifle. I'm certainly keeping mine.

[barnetmill]

Those of us who have been at this a while have lived long enough to see how things go up or down in value as availability changes.

In the 90s 5.45x39 rifles were expensive and so was the ammo because they were "exotic". But as we entered the 2000s (and especially after the expiration of the AWB in 2004), suddenly there was a flood of 5.45x39 guns and ammo as the former combloc countries tried to turn their surplus into cash. AK kits were just $100 at one point. While the cost of 5.56Nato ammo went up because we were expending so much of it on the battlefield, 5.45x39 was the cheapest option then. That's when I built my Polish Tantal, so I could blast away nearly as cheaply as we used to in the 90s with 7.62x39 when cheap Chinese ammo was just 8 cents a round. (Those were the days, baby!)

But was always bummed that there were never any components available for loading 5.45x39, so I started looking 5.56Nato AKs. I had a Chinese one, but those had gone up in value so much, I didn't want to shoot it. I finally plunked down the far too large a chunk of change ($775) to buy an Arsenal SLR106F, because as cheap as 5.45x39 was in 2007, I could still load 5.56 cheaper, by just a hair. 5.45 AK74s sold for just a little bit more than the hard-to-find 5.56 models because factory 5.56 was more expensive. The vast majority of AKs were still 7.62x39 partly because people liked the larger bullet, but also there was such a crap ton of surplus ammo for them across the globe, costs were low.

But now how the tides have turned.

The GWOT ended, and so did the rate of 5.56 consumption in the field. Production had caught up and stockpiles had been replenished, so it was affordable again. Sanctions on Russia had made sourcing 5.45x39 more difficult, therefor more expensive. (Same with 7.62x54R to a lesser extent.)

But then came the 2nd invasion of Ukraine, and NATO kicked into overdrive to back the Ukies. Now every European ammo fabricator prioritized production and delivery for the war effort. Anyone previously fabricating 5.45x39, 7.62x39 or 7.62x54R ceased nearly all domestic sales and diverted to Kiev. And all of this just as the ammo panic buying shortages from the pandemic were beginning to abate. Even die hard 7.62 AK guys were starting to seriously consider 5.56 models, and in fact been since the Russian sanctions had caused problems for a few years already.

So now, my Bulgarian 5.56 AK is worth over $2000 (according to Gunbroker), while my kit-built Polish Tantal will barely bring $1200.

But nothing stays the same.

The war in Ukraine will end. And as they convert fully over to Nato weaponry, all the former Russian stuff will be eventually surplussed out. 5.45 AK74 kits will one day be dirt cheap again, and all that 5.45 ammo will be on the market,...cheap. One of the first industries Ukraine will be able to use to bring in cash after the war will be firing up the ammo production lines at UKROP to export everything they're not stockpiling for themselves. Not within 5 years, mind you, or perhaps even 10. Even if the Russians retreated tomorrow, it will take many years of massive spending to bring Ukraine's military back up to where it needs to be for the next attempt. And when that happens, suddenly AK74 kits and ammo will make it all affordable again. 7.62x39 and 7.62x54R will recover long before that.

AKs used to be dirt cheap when the parts were easily obtained as surplus or made by cheap eastern bloc labor on original tooling. American manufacturers are only now finally beginning to figure out the appropriate bits that can be made with cheap automation and which still require manned forging and machining steps. This means American AKs are now finally approaching the reliability and durability of the originals,...but at prices reflecting the cost of American labor; which is why ARs are so affordable compared to AKs now.


When the ammo supply of 5.45 returns, you'll be happy you held onto your rifle. I'm certainly keeping mine.

I always avoided the 5.45 because I foresaw that their might be a problem with buying ammo and also the 7.62x39 is now well embeded into american gun culture and american made guns. There are american guns chambered in 7.62x39, but not much in 5.45. I have at the worst of the ammo shortage seen where maybe for a few weeks there was no 7.62x39 on line. Otherwise it is always there. It is loaded in the USA. PSA will be making and selling 5.45 soon so that will finally get better.
Any way I do not expend huge quantities of ammo. I seldom fire more than 100 rounds of any center fire rifle cartridge in just one range session. Even buying components for reloading is a pain for 5.45x39.

Ammoman
There is no 5.45 at that site.

There are no products matching the selection.

Expensive but available at ammoman. Current price for 7.62x39

7.62x39MM TULA 122 GRAIN FULL METAL JACKET (1000 ROUNDS)
$600.00

[Texas by God]

This made me curious so I looked.
It may be possible but looks like a lot of work and expense.
The rim is narrower on the 6.8 as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[deces]

I know PSA is going to start making ammo for Russian arms pretty soon. I have a feeling they might even start making some brass 5.45mm at some point in time.

[barnetmill]

I know PSA is going to start making ammo for Russian arms pretty soon. I have a feeling they might even start making some brass 5.45mm at some point in time.

post 32:

PSA will be making and selling 5.45 soon so that will finally get better.

This will steel case ammo and IIRC it will not use bimetallic ferrous containing projectile jackets that have banned such ammo in the past from some ranges.

[akajun]

Way back when I got in a group buy for a special run of Lee 5.45 dies, I simply formed brass from 556 nato brass. simply trimmed, it about 10-.20 thou long, sized in a 222 die, then anealed it and ran it in the 545 die, then trimmed to length. iirc the load I used was blc-2 and 4198 at full power. Rounds were accurate, they cycled the gun, the only issue was the base will swell oblong some on the first firing , but I was still able to get 2-3 firings out of each case and they were pretty round.
I even made my own .221 bullets by running .223 bullets through a .221 lee bullet sizer die.

[paul edward]

The 5.45 x 39 Soviet is unique in that it's .392" base and rim diameters are not shared with any other cartridge.
While the 350 Legend has a .390 base, it is a rebated rimless case with a .378 rim (designed to fit 223 Remington bolt faces).

Another option would be to use 30/30 Winchester cases, swage the base down from .420 to .392 and cut a new extractor grove.
This presumes access to an arbor press and a lathe to cut the extractor groove. One benefit is that 30/30 brass is common and readily available. This will provide cases that can be sized down in a 5.45x39 sizing die, preferably in steps. An intermediate step to reduce the neck diameter could be in a 6.8 SPC sizing die. The 6.8 SPC is based on a rimless version of the 30/30.

If you can get 6.8 SPC brass, it could also be swaged down and would require less lathe work to clean up the extractor groove.

[wyowillys46]

The 5.45 x 39 Soviet is unique in that it's .392" base and rim diameters are not shared with any other cartridge.
While the 350 Legend has a .390 base, it is a rebated rimless case with a .378 rim (designed to fit 223 Remington bolt faces).

Another option would be to use 30/30 Winchester cases, swage the base down from .420 to .392 and cut a new extractor grove.
This presumes access to an arbor press and a lathe to cut the extractor groove. One benefit is that 30/30 brass is common and readily available. This will provide cases that can be sized down in a 5.45x39 sizing die, preferably in steps. An intermediate step to reduce the neck diameter could be in a 6.8 SPC sizing die. The 6.8 SPC is based on a rimless version of the 30/30.

If you can get 6.8 SPC brass, it could also be swaged down and would require less lathe work to clean up the extractor groove.

Swaging down .028" at the base will result in a reduction of the primer pocket diameter. The pocket will have to be recut. The flash hole might even have to be redrilled to open it back up.