FREECHEX Gas Check tool

[Wally]

I might add, most of us that shoot are casual shooters. I am and in most cases a PB cast bullet is good enough for my type of shooting. However I did buy a no. of pistol bullet molds of the gas check design to try them out just to compare and see if they are any better than a non-gas checked bullet. Frankly if the PB bullets were better, I would guess that few would bother with a gas check type. So far I have found the gas check bullets to be better especially in bottle necked rifle calibers. However the PB have worked remarkably well in my Lever action rifles (.357, .44 Mag, .444 Marlin, & the.45-70). I will have a graet time using some gas checked bullets next year in the .38 & caliber rifles just to see if I can shoot them more accurately when using gas chceked bullets.

[azhunter12]

Whats the difference in the .22 modified vs a normal. I've only ever seen a mod version. It mentions something about the Hornet but what would be the difference between that and a .223? Is it still suitable for .223? Sorry for the silly questions but I'm just getting into casting and want to find a cheaper source for checks but was confused by .22 modified.

[Tom W.]

Just for giggles I tried a check made from .014 aluminum from my .45 Free Chex II on a Lee C430-310 RF. It kinda covers up the bottom loob grove, but looks o.k. otherwise.

I can't explain the reddish tint....

[BCall]

Whats the difference in the .22 modified vs a normal. I've only ever seen a mod version. It mentions something about the Hornet but what would be the difference between that and a .223? Is it still suitable for .223? Sorry for the silly questions but I'm just getting into casting and want to find a cheaper source for checks but was confused by .22 modified.

You might want to ask the guy who makes them, but I think the midified one makes a check with a little shorter side that better fits some of the boolits with a shorter gas check shank. Mine fits all of my 22 caliber molds fine and it was a modified one, so that is probably the only one he is making now. Billy

[Charlie Sometimes]

From the look of Charlie Darnall's posted pictures on E-Blah he has fixed it so you put strips in and can cut with different ram punches. Before, the set up used a hole punch to cut the disk and ram punch to form the disk. Quite an improvement, if that is what he did.

I don't know for sure- but, yea, contact him to find out details.
Might be worth updating mine!

They were $29.95 plus $4.95 S&H when I looked.

[Dale53]

Tom W;
The reddish tint in your picture is caused by the color of the light used to take the picture (incandescent?). Most digital cameras will allow you to set the "color temperature" to solve this.

I got back from my trip out of town and sat down to work with the Free Chex II in .44 Caliber.

The instructions leave a lot to be desired. As a result, my first efforts were totally unsatisfactory (I was trying to make the gas checks the wrong way). I went back online and watched the video a couple of times. I finally figured it out. The gas checks formed up perfectly. However, when I tried to install them on my Lyman 430244 Thompson bullet base, they were loose. Even with the "Maximum" thickness material that came with the tool. The real downside is that they only "mic" .428" which is .002" smaller than I size my bullets .

For those that don't have a tool, the first step is to punch out the disc, then you insert the mandrel and form the check. My problem is that when I use the thicker material (necessary to even approach the correct size) the gas check "sticks" on the mandrel requiring prying it off the mandrel before proceeding. This absolutely prevents any kind of production practicality .

I have written Charlie and am waiting for his reply. If I could find thicker material and IF the tool would not be damaged by thicker material, and IF I could solve the "sticking on the mandrel" problem, this might be viable. I haven't, yet, given up on this and hope that Charlie can enlighten me.

My take, is that if I can solve the problems and indeed make 400 an hour, then it will be worth it to me. Otherwise, nadda...

Dale53

[BCall]

After going back a looking at the listing for the one I bought I think I understand what he means by modified. I the original Freechex 2, the forming punch was inserted in the middle of the die after cutting the disk.

In the modified one, you have to remove the plug cutter and then insert the forming punch. I assume all of the smaller calibers are listed as modified. Probably anything under 30 cal has too small of a plug cutter to run the forming punch down the center of it like in the larger calibers.

Here is the listing for the one I bought
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=230380595185

If you read the last line I think it explains it.

FWIW, in the larger caliber I have no experience, but in the 22 one I have the checks are a little loose when formed, but are nice and tight after sizing in my LamII. They can be pulled off, and might fall of when firing, but they are tight enough I don't think that will happen. Billy

[kelbro]

My 44 FCII forms .012 copper to a snug fit. Doesn't stick on the mandrel. Give Charlie a call.

[Charlie Sometimes]

Your speaking of Freechex I and II as the same design.

The "1" is the one that has been modified, I think- all the smaller calibers from the looks of the pictures.
Probably should have been called "1A"
The "2" is still the same, I think.

I would think you could cut a disc out of the slotted metal with a tight punch that didn't go all the way down, then use a punch that did to shape the cup for end product.
Some one who knows more about machining dies might be able to tell if that is possible or not.

[BCall]

He is listing it as a Freechex II (modified). The Freechex one used a separate punch to cut out the disks, then you put them in the forming die. The II used the same die to cut the disc and form it, you just use separate punches. You're right though, it's really about a 1.5. Billy

[JeffinNZ]

DALE:
What is the diameter of the forming mandrel where the check is formed?
What is the diameter of the shank on the 430244?
What material and thickness of said are you using?
What is the diameter of the exit hole on the forming anvil?

Give me this info and I will try and help you out. I have spent a lot of time tinkering with both FC and FCII's.

[Dale53]

JeffinNZ;
I'll get you those dimensions tomorrow. FWIW, the material that was furnished was the thickest of two "swatches" at .015" aluminum. The gas checks are formed nicely. Just too small and they stick on the mandrel.

I have written Charlie but haven't heard from him yet (it IS over the weekend). Charlie may actually have a life apart from the Forum

I'm sure I'll hear from him when he gets a chance.

Dale

[vonnieglen]

I posted the youtube video several months ago. I got an email from Charlie the inventor/manufacturer tonight. I thought it might include some useful information to some of those reading the thread. I have made thousands of the gas checks for my cast bullets. I have been very happy with the results.

Steve:
I wish I could inform your film critics (mere viewers) that the tool mandrel are extremely hard on one end. However, the 357, 44 and the 500 S&W have an almost in-perceptible difference from cylindrical drill rod from which they are made . In Some cases it is as small at .002" . The mandrel tip is hardened to guard against wear, and to especially keep virtually anything from sticking to it when extreme swaging takes place. I am certain some folks are using the mandrel upside down. It has taken a while to find your e-mail, thanks for your films too.
Charlie

[Dale53]

vonnieglen;

I am using the correct end of the mandrel (mine is noticeably different). If I hadn't been trained as a machinist (never did it professionally) I probably wouldn't have noticed it. The instructions need HELP.

FWIW
Dale53

[David Wile]

Hey folks,

I may be wrong on the correct names for Charlie Darnall’s gas check tool sets, but I think his original tool set was the Freechex or Freechex I. The original tool set consisted of a punch to cut a gas check disc, and an anvil and mandril to form the disc into a finished gas check. After punching out a bunch of discs, you would place each disc in the anvil, then place the mandril in the anvil atop the disc and strike the mandril with a mallet to form the disc into a finished gas check. Aluminum from soda cans were the most commonly used material for making checks with this tool set.

I purchased four of the original Freechex tool sets, and they were in .30, .357, .44, and .45 calibers. I found all four of these sets made perfectly fine gas checks from aluminum soda cans, and I have been using them since then. I use a nylon mallet for striking the disc punch and the mandril. You cannot use a steel hammer on the tool set parts that are hardened steel and can be shattered with steel on steel. I also cut my discs on a 1/4 inch thick hard rubber mat and also formed my gas checks with anvil and mandril on the same rubber mat which seems to give some cushioning to the process. After 18 months of use, my tool sets are still in perfect working order.

In Post 54, Bcall seemed to indicate he had a problem with his original tool set:

“The original required that you punch out the disk with a separate punch, then put it on top of a die and form it with a pin type punch. The problem was there was no precise way to center the forming pin on the disk. I got a bunch of wasted lopsided gas checks, and gave up on it.”

I might be wrong, but Bcall’s description sound exactly like my first attempt to use the original tool. I was having the same problem. Then I saw a picture of a mandril in the anvil, and I noticed that I was using the anvil upside down. When I looked at what I was doing and what I saw in the picture, the light bulb suddenly came on, and it was obvious how the anvil and mandril were supposed to be used. When I placed the disc in the correct end of the anvil, the mandril fitted perfectly and started to produce perfect gas checks. Maybe Bcall had a different problem, but his description sure sounded like my first experience. I had no problems with any of my tool sets after I figured out the first one.

I don’t know when Charley started producing his new Freechex II gas check tool (perhaps as much as a year ago?), but I first saw a video of a fellow using one on a Harbor Freight arbor press about three or four months ago. I was fascinated by the video and how it worked. Again there are three parts to the tool set, and they do the same thing (punch a disc then form it into a gas check), but it is a different design and a little bit easier to use than the original tool sets. In the new Freechex II, there is an anvil which is used for both cutting a disc and forming the finished check, a punch die to cut the disc in the anvil, and a mandril to form the finished gas check. Unlike the original Freechex which was designed to use aluminum from soda cans, the Freechex II is designed to use thicker aluminum like the aluminum coils that which can be purchased from Lowe’s or Home Depot for flashing.

The Freechex II works slick as can be, and it can be seen on various videos available on the internet. One starts by cutting coil stock aluminum into half inch wide strips. The strip is then placed in the slot of the anvil, and then the punch die is placed in the top of the anvil. At this point, the punch die can be pressed with an arbor press or simply struck with a nylon mallet. The punch die will cut a disc and hold the disk in place while the forming mandril is then inserted through the punch die and onto the waiting disc. A light rap with the nylon mallet (or using an arbor press) will form a finished gas check that will fall out the bottom. It is definitely slick.

I really had no need to buy the new Freechex II since my original Freechex tool sets worked just fine with free aluminum soda cans, however, I did get a Freechex II in .45 caliber for my 45-70 just to see how it works. Like the original Freechex tool sets, I started using the new one while sitting at a table, and I have come to the conclusion that I really do not need an arbor press. I simply use a small nylon mallet which you can purchase at Harbor Freight, and it makes beautiful checks. With either the original Freechex tool sets or the new Freechex II tool set, I can sit in my recliner chair and make gas checks while watching TV. For doing leather work, I have a polished marble block about 7 by 12 inches and three inches thick. I sit in my recliner with my marble block on my lap covered by my 1/4 inch thick hard rubber mat, and I make gas checks at my liesure.

I have found my gas checks to work well whether they are made from soda cans on the original Freechex or from aluminum flashing made on the new Freechex II. They all fit my bullets the same as the Hornady or Lyman copper checks I have uses for nearly 50 years. I believe the Freechex II is also designed to use a thin copper sheet, but I have not tried using copper since the aluminum flashing works so well. Yes, I still make gas checks with my original Freechex tool sets - other than the .45 caliber; I use the Freechex II for the .45s.

Charlie Darnall personally makes all the tool sets that he sells. Considering the rather small number of tool sets he sells, I would not be surprised to find his tool sets will be considered as prizes by collectors 25 years from now, much as Belding and Mull equipment is valued today. I may not live long enough to sell my Freechex sets for future premium prices, but in the meantime, I will be making great gas checks at a most reasonable cost.

I have never met Charlie in person, but I have talked with him quite a few times, and he is a very delightful person to know. He is very prompt to ship his product, and he is very responsive to the customer’s needs. If you have a question, give him your phone number and I will bet that he will call you within 24 hours. His tool sets actually work, they have been on the market for some time, and Charley does not have to make excuses for not delivering his product. When he advertises a tool set for sale on E-Bay, you can be assured that it is actually available right away, and if you purchase it, you can be assured that he will ship it by USPS Priority Mail for just the actual cost of shipping - no handling charges. You can’t beat that quality and service with a stick.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

[Big Dave]

I am a retired toolmaker and can probably make my own if someone has a sketch, photos or plans of these checkmaker tools. Far as that goes could develop my own design but really hate reinventing the wheel if I can avoid it. Was just on Midway looking at 44 cal gaschecks, Hornady was almost 40 dollars and Lyman close to fifty for something a high speed press will turn out at several hundred a minute. Reading some of these posts about these checkmaker tools being run with a hammer, why not with your loading press, should give a lot better controll. Post an answer or PM me.

[JudgeBAC]

Big Dave, check out this past thread:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...lin+check+tool

This may be the information your looking for.

Looks like a pretty neat tool and apparently KTN is not interested in making them for sale.

[David Wile]

HeyBig Dave,

While I am not a tool and die maker nor a machinist, it would seem to me that both versions of Charlie Darnall's tool sets are fairly simple in mechanical concept once you have used them. To me, the difficulty in making such tools is in the actual machining knowledge required to take pieces of steel and turn them into actual precision tools that are then used by folks like myself. Since you are a toolmaker by trade, I would not be surprised to find that you could indeed make a fine tool set if you had one of Charlie's to use for learning purposes. I would suppose that virtually all new ideas by toolmakers are formed by toolmakers who have stood on the shoulders of another toolmaker who came before him.

As far as why I choose to use a nylon mallet to make my checks, I can do it while relaxing in my recliner chair watching TV. I have back problems and when at the reloading bench, I find it helps if I can alternate between standing and sitting on a stool while working. Even with the back aches, I do like my bench work.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

[Big Dave]

Big Dave, check out this past thread:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...lin+check+tool

This may be the information your looking for.

Looks like a pretty neat tool and apparently KTN is not interested in making them for sale.

Many thanks, lot of food for thought in that info. Years ago I made quite a few compound blank and draw dies for alum. brass and steel cups of assorted sizes. Have to give this some thought and trial, Not sure if wall thicknesses for a blank and draw this small will be strong enough for reliablility. Might be workable down to 30 cal. maybe even 25 cal.doubt if 22 is workable. We will see. Be nice to mount in the RCBS single station and get a compleate gas check with each stroke.
Anybody got blank disk diameters and finished cup diameters for different calibers?

[JudgeBAC]

Cast Bullet Gas Check Shank Sizes
Originally posted on Cast Boolits.com By:Felix <Reprinted with permission>

*Gator Gas Check Shank sizes

Max Shank Caliber Max Shank Caliber
Caliber

Diameter Description / Dimensions Caliber Diameter Description / Dimensions
.224 .214 .22 / .224 .410P1 .397 .41 Lyman (very thin)
.243 .233 .243 / 6mm .410P2 .378 .41 BSS, NEI, MM (very thick)
.257 .243 .25 / .257 .416 .393 .416 rifle normally
.264 .252 .264 / 6.5mm .430 .402 .44 /.430
.277 .253 .270 / .277 .452 .426 .45P/.452 pistol (thin)
.284 .250 .284 / 7mm .458 .426 .45R/.458 rifle (thick)
.308 .284 .30 / .308 .475P .445 .475 pistol (thin)
.323 .301 .323 / 8mm .475R .445 .475 rifle (thick)
.338 .327 .338 .500 .458 .50P / .500 S&W pistol / D> length=0.0800
.348 .320 .348 .512RL .466 .50R / .512 rifle (long) / D> length=0.0150
.358 .341 .35 / .357 / .358 / .360 .512RS .466 .50R / .512 rifle (short) / D> length=0.0800
.375 .354 .375


A> Outside Diameter Before taper

*Gator Gas Checks has no web site. They are a


B> Inside Diameter

manufacturer and deal in wholesale (for the most part).


C> Outside Diameter With taper

Gator Checks can be ordered through group buys at


D> Height

castboolits.com



E> Cup Thickness



Dave: Also look at the sticky about gas check shank size in the gas check subforum.