Lube after PC, before sizing??

[SaltyJim]

I am casting 45-70-405. They come out of the mold at 459. That's good. Then I "shake and bake" for powder coating.

First question is...how do you all prevent scratching the powder off the bullet after "shaking" before baking? When I pick them up with needle nose pliers to sit them on the oven tray, I scratch some of the powder off. Not a good finished product.

Second question...they, of course, come out of the oven several thousandths wider. Have to size them back to 459. I use the Lee sizer which is recommended to lube before sizing. Do you all spray lube on the PC bullets before sizing in the Lee sizer?

I'm sure you guessed that this is my first attempt at powder coating.

[Walter Laich]

due to being lazy I shake mine then dump the powder, BBs and powder into a colander.

the holes in the colander have been drilled out and edges smoothed to allow the powder/BBs to fall through

I then dump the PC bullets onto a wire rack and bake for 20 minutes once the temp has reached 400°

Remove the rack and dump the bullets into a metal rectangle cake pan from wally-world

tap the pan a few times to keep the bullets from sticking together.

once cool size using Lee push through on an inverted press--bullets drop right into die without having to center the bullet on the ram

IF NEEDED I might spray lube them but most times they size just fine as the PC coating is a bit slick

Best to luck as PC is more of an art than science and you'll develop your own "style" as you do more of it

[charlie b]

I use tweezers to set powdered bullets. I put a piece of heat shrink (not the shiny stuff) on the tweezer tips and that protects the powder.

I size before and after PC. I think it makes for a better end product. When done that way I don't have to use lube when sizing.

[Misery-Whip]

Nitrile glove not laytex. Get your fingers in the powder and put them on there bases on parchment lined sheet.

[oley55]

I shake off the excess powder in a screen type colander, rub my bare index finger n thumb in some powder and then pick up each bullet and set on a silicone baking sheet. I've read about using tweezers and what not but never found the need. Bare fingers dusted in powder work fine for me.

[405grain]

Like others I use tweezers to pick up and place the bullets. Not the type of cheap angle blade tweezers that you find in the cosmetics section of a drug store, but sharp pointy stainless steel tweezers. On some bullets that cast slightly above the finished size (and are going to get bigger once powder coated) I size both before and after powder coating. I use a Lee push through sizer. On the first sizing of the as cast bullets I take a folded up paper towel and put some dish washing detergent on it. I use this just like a case lube pad. The detergent acts as a sizing lube, and it washes off completely after sizing leaving clean bullets ready for powder coating. After powder coating I run the bullets back through the sizer again. Powder coated bullets don't need any lube for sizing. Trying to force a bullet that's .003" or more oversized through a push through sizer may cause problems. Also, depending on how it fits on each type of bullet determines if I seat the gas check before or after doing the PC.

[Daekar]

Like others I use tweezers to pick up and place the bullets. Not the type of cheap angle blade tweezers that you find in the cosmetics section of a drug store, but sharp pointy stainless steel tweezers. On some bullets that cast slightly above the finished size (and are going to get bigger once powder coated) I size both before and after powder coating. I use a Lee push through sizer. On the first sizing of the as cast bullets I take a folded up paper towel and put some dish washing detergent on it. I use this just like a case lube pad. The detergent acts as a sizing lube, and it washes off completely after sizing leaving clean bullets ready for powder coating. After powder coating I run the bullets back through the sizer again. Powder coated bullets don't need any lube for sizing. Trying to force a bullet that's .003" or more oversized through a push through sizer may cause problems. Also, depending on how it fits on each type of bullet determines if I seat the gas check before or after doing the PC.

I am going to try that dish detergent trick, excessive force required during initial sizing is the biggest obstacle I have in casting, hands down. It's significant enough that I try to only size down 0.001" at a time, so some bullets get sized twice before getting powder coated, and once afterwards. That's a lot of time and effort. Thanks for the tip!

[Rapier]

I made a 1/4" hardware cloth box 12"x12"x1" deep using stainless wire to hold the corners, a large round punch to change the 1/4" squares to about 30 cal rounds to hold the bullet nose at the ojive. Turn the box up side down.
I found that the base and bearing surface are the most important parts of the bullet for good accuracy at 0-200 yards. Keeping them as close to perfect as possible is important.

The spring loaded needle nose pliers are heated red hot and bent in to make a shape at the points like so (), except a bit more accentuated.

The bullet lube I use to size with is RCBS case lube on a lube pad, just a wee bit will do. I use a lube/sizer to do the actual sizing. With a double coat and no GC on a plain base I get 2,500 fps at .4 inches at 100.

[cwlongshot]

You have been given best advice here. Mine would be repeating most of whats been said.

But I do have some advice.

First off, Each powder is different. Some coat thick some thin. I choose thin for my GC bullets.

Sifting off powder after coating leaves you with best and thinnest coating. NO YOU CAN NOT SIFT OFF TOO MUCH! I have been also to get darn near .001 thic coating with some powders. I use wire mesh drawer organizers. They are approx 1/8" wire cloth material.

I NEVER size first. But sometimes seat GC first if GC base is tight.

I coat bullets DIRECTLY after casting, I size very shortly after cast. Most of our cast are gonna harden the longer they sit, waiting makes sizing difficult. Try sizing sooner after casting. I size 459/460 down to .454 regularly. PLUS powder coat, W/O difficulty.

Something you may not realize. Brand new sizer dies STICK LIKE CRAZY!!! I have stuck bullets that required punch and hammer to dislodge!!!!!! But after a few lubed bullets sized NO MORE LUBE HAS BEEN NEEDED. Mostly I use NOE sizing dies. But I also have LEE new and die sizers. LEE sizers have EXTREMELY thin/narrow sizer band. Other brands are MUCH wider.

Here is a video of my process maybe seeing another process can help ya more.

https://youtu.be/vzSMkpf5SCY


Here is how I install Gas Checks and size

https://youtu.be/YsE1elblTQc

[725]

I cast, PC, and then size. I use the 1/4 hardware cloth to make a tray which goes into my toaster oven. So far so good.

[rockrat]

Why back to .459"? My PC slugs come out at .461" and I just shoot them at that size. Do you have tight clearances on the neck/throat of your firearm?

[PopcornSutton]

As cast bullets aren't round. For accuracy rifle bullets, I bump the nose, seat and size base and GC, then PC as thin a coating I can. I run the base back through the sizer after PC to get it back to size, since my chamber is a tight neck. The bullets aren't nice and pretty with the thin coating, but a heavy coating can vary in thickness. And I roll the bullets on a RCBS lube pad for each pass through a sizer.

[414gates]

First question is...how do you all prevent scratching the powder off the bullet after "shaking" before baking? When I pick them up with needle nose pliers to sit them on the oven tray

No need to fiddle with each bullet. Shake and bake means this :

Do you all spray lube on the PC bullets before sizing ..

You should lube your PC bullets before sizing, or you will scrape the PC off in the sizing die. If you apply a spray lube, make sure to let it dry before sizing.

[charlie b]

No, you don't scrape off the PC in a sizing die without lube unless the die is screwed up or you are trying to size down too much.

My long bore riders (210gn .308) are base sized, nose sized, PC'd, then base sized and nose sized again. I do not lube the bullets for any of this. NOE sizing bushings.

The .357 and .45acp bullets are sized after PC with no lube and no scraping of the PC. They do come out of the molds close to final size so sizing is only .002 or .003 after PC.

[Cast10]

If you shake properly/enough, use tweezers, place base down on tray/mat, any slight marks will be covered when PC melts.
For lube, I use Hornady One Shot case lube (spray can) with al my sizers (Lee). While boolits are baking, shoot some lube up inside the die, screw it in to press and it will be dry by the time you’re ready.
I let my boolits cool to about 90 degrees before I run up in the sizer. You will need to shot another shot of lube into die somewhere after a bit, but you can ‘feel’ when it needs it.
Good Luck.

[uscra112]

Am I understanding that you guys are sizing twice in addition to all the labor involved in applying and baking this plastic coating? Is it worth it, as compared to just running them through a lubrizer once with traditional lube?

[Daekar]

Am I understanding that you guys are sizing twice in addition to all the labor involved in applying and baking this plastic coating? Is it worth it, as compared to just running them through a lubrizer once with traditional lube?

That's a fair point. To me, PC is worth it because the lead is no longer exposed, there is no lube to melt or get in/on things, and it doesn't gunk up suppressors. I think some folks would assert that it actually permits higher velocities without leading and accuracy loss, but I'm not in a position to say if that's true or not.

If I were a higher-volume shooter or didn't want to use a suppressor, I would consider a lubricizer setup. As it is, I just PC things and then don't worry about it. I will definitely be looking into some of the advice in this thread to help me eliminate a sizing step.

I will admit, as much as I like the look of some PC bullets (Meatpuppet sent me some killer 310gr examples in Kawasaki green a few years ago), I really prefer the aesthetic appearance of the bare lead. That's not really high on my priority list though.

[uscra112]

OK, good point about suppressors. Something I don't think about because I never have and probably never will use one.

Carry on!

[charlie b]

Am I understanding that you guys are sizing twice in addition to all the labor involved in applying and baking this plastic coating? Is it worth it, as compared to just running them through a lubrizer once with traditional lube?

Yes, and no. Kept in perspective, my goal is less than MOA out to several hundred yards.

I have one bullet (Acc 31-210E) that is a bore rider. I ordered the die knowing I would be powder coating so it needs the extra 0.002" of diameter from coating to fit the bore well. To keep the bullets in as good a shape as possible I go through a lot. Apply GC, size base (and crimp GC), size nose (.300"). Then apply PC and bake. When cool I size the base and nose (.302) again. The final nose size is mainly just a check to make sure everything is still in spec. The bore of my rifle is .302 so the bullet is a tight fit when chambered.

I also like to shoot the NOE 310-165 (XCB). It is not a bore rider. If PC'd the tapered nose means it has to be seated deep in the case. That bullet I run through the lubesizer (Ben's red or LithiBee lube).

Both shoot very well and on good days will do less than MOA at 200yd. I don't shoot at 500yd much but both are easily 1.5MOA at that range.

I do like PC'd bullets. If I could have ordered the XCB at a slightly smaller forward taper I would be powder coating those as well.

[Cast10]

Am I understanding that you guys are sizing twice in addition to all the labor involved in applying and baking this plastic coating? Is it worth it, as compared to just running them through a lubrizer once with traditional lube?

NO!
Cast, powder coat, size.

Use nitrile gloves from the time you cast; don’t touch boolits. If you have problems with powder adhering, shake and soak cast bullets in Acetone for 10 min, pour on clean cloth, let dry. Don’t touch boolits.

I only size AFTER boolits have been cast and powder coated. I let cool down to around 90 degrees, then they get run thru the sizer, lubed as described above.