What is a "transfer"?

[poppy42]

Well I don’t know about other states but I can tell you here in Virginia you have to ship it through an FFL unless the manufacturer send you a shipping label then you simply package it up put the label on and take it to either UPS or FedEx which Evelyn company the manufacturer deals with! And I know this for a fact because I just dealt with it less than a year ago! Incidentally the gun was replaced, new sr it was shipped back to me! No paperwork required. Like I said and have no idea how it’s done in other states

[M-Tecs]

Virginia appears to not have any State restrictions. https://palmettostatearmory.com/ship...-by-state.html

If that is correct only Federal Laws apply:

Transferring/Shipping/Possession of Firearms:
4. May I lawfully transfer a firearm to an individual who resides in a different State?
What if the individual resides within the same State?
Under Federal law, an unlicensed individual is prohibited from transferring a firearm to an
individual who does not reside in the State where the transferee resides. Generally, for a person
to lawfully transfer a firearm to an unlicensed person who resides out of State, the firearm must
be shipped to a Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL) within the recipient’s State of residence. He or
she may then receive the firearm from the FFL upon completion of an ATF Form 4473 and a
NICS background check. More information can be obtained on the ATF website at www.atf.gov
and http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html. The GCA provides an exception
from this prohibition for temporary loans or rentals of firearms for lawful sporting purposes. For
example, a friend visiting you may borrow a firearm from you to go hunting. Another exception
is provided for transfers of firearms to nonresidents to carry out a lawful bequest or acquisition
by intestate succession. This exception would authorize the transfer of a firearm to a nonresident
who inherits a firearm under a will or by State law upon death of the owner. See 18 U.S.C. §
922(a)(5)(A).
In regard to transferring firearms between individuals residing in the same state, any person may
sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of the State where he resides as long as he or she does not
know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing
firearms under Federal law. Please note that there may be State and local laws that regulate
firearm transactions. Any person considering acquiring or transferring a firearm should contact
his or her State Attorney General’s Office to inquire about the laws and possible State or local
firearms restrictions. A list of State Attorney General contact numbers may be found at
http://www.naag.org/.
5. May I lawfully ship a firearm to myself in a different State?
Any person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in the care of another person in the State
where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be
- 5 -
addressed to the owner of the firearm “in the care of” the out-of-State resident. Upon reaching
its destination, persons other than the owner of the firearm must not open the package or take
possession of the firearm. The out-of-State resident is encouraged to place the package in a safe
and secure location until the owner of the firearm is available to take physical possession.
6. May I lawfully ship a firearm directly to an out-of-State licensee, or must I have a
licensee in my State ship it to him? May the licensee return the firearm to me, even if
the shipment is across State lines?
Any person may ship firearms directly to a licensee in any State, with no requirement for another
licensee to ship the firearm. However, handguns and other concealable firearms are not mailable
through the United States Postal Service and must be shipped via private common or contract
carrier (18 U.S.C. § 1715). The USPS and private common or contract carriers may also have
additional restrictions on firearms shipments by unlicensed persons. Firearms shipped to FFLs
for repair or any other lawful purpose may be returned to the person from whom received
without transferring the firearm through an FFL in the recipient’s State of residence. FFLs may
also return a replacement firearm of the same kind and type to the person from whom received
(18 U.S.C. § 922(a)(2)(A)). An ATF Form 4473 is required for the return of the firearm, except
in instances when a firearm is delivered to a licensee for the sole purpose of repair or
customizing, and the same firearm or a replacement firearm is returned to the person from whom
received (27 CFR § 478.124(a))

[bedbugbilly]

"Perhaps RIA being headquartered in New York has something to do with it?"


New York is the "New Kalifornia Republik" isn't it?

[2152hq]

NYS handgun laws are to blame for the Mfg'r requiring that the gun be sent to them by an FFL.

In NYS, an FFL also needs a NYS 'Handgun License' to do business in Handguns.
Buy and sell them you need a NYS Dealers License
Do gunsmithing on Handguns,,you (also) need a NYS Gunsmiths License.

These are both forms of a NYS Pistol Permit and are good for 3yrs at which time they have to be renewed.

The NYS Pistol Laws state that any NYS Handgun Dealer OR NYS (Handgun) Licensed Gunsmith can ONLY receive a handgun for transfer, resale, repair from:
#1..Someone with a valid NYS P/P
#2 ..Someone with a Valid FFL AND a valid NYS Handgun Dealer and/or Gunsmithing License
#3..If the handgun is recv'd from Out of State for transfer, sale or repair,,The firearm can ONLY be recv'd from another valid FFL in that State.

So the orig Mfr is in NYS.
They have an FFL (probably an 07FFL Manufacturers)
They also have a NYS Handgun Dealers Lic as well as a NYS Gunsmithing license to Deal in and also do Repairs on their products.

#3 above is the reason the Mfg'r demands that the gun comes to them from another FFL.

There is paperwork the NY FFL must fill out and send back to the NYSP (P12 Form) which shows who the gun came from. It must include the Out of State's FFL# in the case of an
OOS acquisition.
The Mfg'r will send the repaired gun back to the same FFL.
Being a Repair, there should be no 4473/NICS for the customer to rec'v their pistol back. That's standard Fed Law.

If the Pistol in unrepairable and a replacement of the same type is given in exchange', there is still no 4473/NICS for the customer to go thru.
The Factory records will show the returned and replacement pistols.
In this case so will the FFL's log book that orig sent the gun in for the customer.

No 4473/NICS is necessary as the gun is a replacement of the same type/kind for one already owned.


If there is a State/Local registration issue where the ser# must be changed on some document, then the paperwork from the factory and or the FFL will have to be used to do so.
This sort of thing happens quite often especially with todays not so great quality firearms.
50yrs as an FFL & NYS Handgun Dealer & Gunsmith license holder in this State and you get to know the regs pretty well.

BATF clarified the replacement gun paperwork question when it issued this:
https://search.atf.gov/search?query=...&affiliate=atf

They actually clarified that same question way back in 1974 with this Ruling #(19)74-20
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/ru...earms/download

[Shawlerbrook]

Agree with 2152hq. I think this whole thread sums up the fact the the anti gun side is winning. The confusion is accomplishing their goal of suppressing firearms transactions. After the NYS SafeAct, many dealers like Williams Gunsight Co., Bud’s etc. would just not ship guns, legal or not, into NYS. Even the enforcement officials cannot( or will not) give you a straight answer. And for those that are still in “free” states that say, correctly, they would never live in Ca., NY, NJ, Ma., etc., if the 2024 vote goes bad, that will be the law of the land.

[kend]

While it is legal for an individual to send a gun for repair the problem is the shipping part, 8 months or so ago UPS and Fedex changed their shipping policies and now require any shipments of guns to be done through a "firearms approved shipping account" and one of the things required for that account is an FFL. While an individual can ship a long gun through the PO a handgun can only be shipped FFL to FFL. I don't know if the factory sending a shipping label will get around the requirement today. One option for an individual is to use ship outdoors.com, they had their account approved for shipping guns form individuals and evidently that satisfied UPS so that's what I use even though I'm an FFL.

[Shawlerbrook]

I would imagine the factory or gunsmith sending a shipping label meets the requirements as that label is processed on their account.

[David2011]

Not related to shipping; in New Mexico when "universal background checks were implemented. That meant that anyone handling a firearm that doesn't belong to them is a transfer and requires a background check. I was a Hunter Ed instructor there when the state told the Hunter Ed groups to turn their functional firearms over to the Department of Game and Fish because nobody could handle them without a background check every time someone different touched the firearm and another background check when the instructor took it back. It eliminated live fire training completely. Until the law was amended, dealers couldn't even let customers handle firearms.