Bullets cost too much. I need to start swaging. lots of questions

[adanymous]

I mostly shoot .30 cal stuff some .224, Ive been away from the hobby for a while due to life and didnt notice that projectiles are now $.80 to $1.50 each for .30 cal. Seems insane to me. Now that Ive caught up with life, I shoot a good bit and Id actually save money by swaging bullets at this point. I dont have any equipment at all that is up to the task. I was just researching at Corbin's site and saw their low end press is $750ish and their mid is $1350ish. I wont say money is no object but their $2500ish caliber kit cost is no big deal. I can definitely spend more if necessary, but Id probably cap it at %50 more for press and 1 caliber. I absolutely cannot afford that super awesome hydraulic press they have. If anyone knows of some used stuff for sale Id be interested. I know there is a ton of knowledge here, if youre feeling generous I have lots of questions, here we go.

1. Is the low end press capable of 220gr .308 without lots of operator strain? Is the mid press better for that?

2. Their marketing on it is pretty good. Is there a better one for the money?

3. Can I get a die that will give me a .308 hybrid ogive boat tail with adjustable weight from 175ish to 220ish?

4. Can I get a .224 die that I dont have to sort range .22lr for? I dont care if I have to buy tubing etc to make jackets. Not to insult others, its super cool you can make jackets from .22lr brass but I have a time/production economy. And picking up, cleaning, multiple swaging steps of .22lr does not make sense for me.

5. Will the bullets from these dies expand reliably and make really solid hunting bullets? If not I dont think it makes sense for me.

6. Can I expect sierra/nosler accuracy? Or am I compromising on that.

7. Is there a better source for all of this equipment? I know BT is a member here, but he has no website so kinda hard to research his stuff. Is it as good? Better? Do I have to wait forever to get stuff from other suppliers? (To be honest, Im not super patient)

8. This should have been #1 is there a giant learning curve to swaging? There are lots of things you can do in casting to make great bullets from the first pour. If you dont know those things your first 50 pours are gonna be crap. If I were not aware of this forum Id still be making lots of crap bullets. Is it the same with swaging or can I expect a little set up and then make awesome bullets? (I dont mind a bit of a learning curve, Id just like to be aware of it and know how to mitigate my time wasting.)


I really appreciate any answers you may have, especially if you have some expertise on the subject. If youre anywhere near Paris, Texas and wouldnt mind a guy watching you swage some bullets Id appreciate the initiation!

Thanks in advance fellas
Dan

[dverna]

I am 72 and regret not getting into swaging 20-25 years ago. IMO it will take you 10 years to breakeven unless you shoot a lot. I am too old and do not shoot enough to start now.

I can buy Hornady 55 gr SP for $600/6000. Have not run the numbers, but doubt the savings woukd be worth the time. If you can make 100/hr, that means 60 hours of work. Even if the lead and jackets are “free”, you are netting $10/hr. And I doubt what you make will shoot any better.

If you do a lot of .30 cal shooting the numbers will likely be better. Just need to work the numbers for your case. I bought 1200 premium jacketed .30 cal bullets and will never use them up. They cost me less than $400. But I do not shoot the .308’s for fun.

IMO, being insulated from market conditions or government control is important. If I was younger that would be a prime reason to swage.

Doing it to save money is a long term endeavor and you need to enjoy doing it. For most poeople, they can buy a lifetime supply of factory bullets by the time they can afford good swaging equipment. We get old and run out of time to make the numbers work.

I see stuff on sale in the S&S section so keep an eye there to reduce your investment. Seen some decent deals in the last couple of months. But most of it is .22 cal IIRC.

[deces]

Before long you might find yourself reloading your own primers. It's a sign of the times.

[Sasquatch-1]

To start off with, give Dave Corbin a call. Every time I have called the company Dave has answered the phone. He is more than willing to answer any questions you may have.

I have a Corbin "S" Press. I swage .430 cal. bullets using .40 S&W brass. I do not swage rifle bullets, but I do use a rifle bullet for my core that has to be pressed into the cylindrical core and then pressed into the jacket. I don't think there would be a problem swaging 308's with the "S" press.

You will have to think hard when you figure dies run anywhere form about $200.00 for a single die for a single step in the process to #1400.00 to $1600.00 for complete sets.

As far as question one goes, I believe the "S" press is capable of handling what you want to do.

[MrWolf]

BT Sniper on this site has swaging dies and such, but not sure if he is mostly 22's for the true swaging. Keep asking questions as it is something I would have looked at when I was younger. Do it while you can. Never know when you won't even be able to sit for a period of time to even try. Stuff happens. Good luck.
Ron

[kokomokid]

If you are wanting to make long bullets such as a 6mm x 115 grain copy of a Berger you will have to drop big bucks for a swage press that will make a 1.6" long bullet as most cheaper swage presses are limited to the 1.2"-1.4" range.

[contender1]

I'm a newbie to swaging,, and also very frugal when it comes to investing my money. But I shoot a lot,, and like you, the rising costs of jacketed bullets got me to studying swaging a lot more.
Most of my shooting is handgun stuff,, so I cast & PC my bullets.
But .223 stuff,,, while I don't shoot a ton of it,, I do like having "options" and the pleasure of "making my own." I do have enough patience to where I try & figure out what will be my best route,, and also where I can reduce my expenses without giving up quality.
I was gifted a BT Sniper bullet swager for making .9mm cases into .40 cal bullets a few years ago,, and loved it.
Yes,, it's a little work, but the satisfaction AND seeing others look at my stuff with admiration is well worth it.

Not too long ago, I was able to buy the Corbin set for turning .22 RF cases into .223 bullets from a FINE forum member here. Very reasonable in his pricing & such. Plus,, he offered me some excellent advice on getting started.

While it may seem a bit time consuming,, vs production of bullets,, it has been very satisfying to watch myself turn "scrap" brass into usable bullets. I have NOT found it to be too time consuming,, nor too hard to do. I did sort my brass,, just because I like to try & eliminate as many mechanical variables BEFORE the "loose nut behind the trigger" gets involved. Many people do not sort their .22 RF brass.
As far as accuracy,, many folks in competition swage their own bullets,, AND win.

I'm using my RCBS RockChucker press to do my swaging.

BTW; RCBS stands for; "Rock Chuck Bullet Swage" ! When the company was first formed,, the concept was to make their own bullets due to the serious lack of available bullets for handloading.

I haven't tried any .30 cal stuff,,, and don't have a serious need either. But I will say that if a set of .30 cal swaging dies were to become available, and capable of being used on my RockChucker,, for a reasonable price,, I'd buy them.

As for a learning curve,, I have not found it to be a big thing. It was actually easier, (to me) than I expected. Yes,, I made a few mistakes at first,, but I quickly figured out what I was doing wrong.

Lastly,, you have said that the cost of buying bullets has risen enough to where you are looking at swaging. But you also say you can afford to spend the $1500 or so to get started. Only YOU can decide if "it's worth it" when it comes to the money part. For me,, my investment into .223 bullet swaging was a lot cheaper than that,, as I already had a press to use, and found a good buy here.

[dverna]

I am repeating myself but....

Who would have ever thought we would see primers at $150/k during the "crazy time"? Don't think the powers that be are not noticing how they can control our ability to shoot. They can make it expensive, or enact laws that curtail supply. No need to control guns if you cannot get AFFORDABLE ammunition or components.

If you have the means....GO FOR IT. Most people cannot afford to make the investment in good stuff.

I got a "teaser" pack of swaged pistol bullets from Kayadog (member here) and they are excellent. I still need to evaluate them, but they look great. Been dealing with too many health and family issues to get my crap together. Just got the Chinese bug this week so more challenges to deal with. It looks like you can make excellent bullets at home if you know what you are doing.

We have a member here, Alex, who lives in Russia. He has a side business producing hunting bullets for hunters in his country. You cannot do that legally in the US...because we are living in a "free" country...LOL. The point is Russians would buy commercial bullets if they could, but they either cannot get them or they are so expensive that hand made bullets are cost effective. We could see this happen in the "Land of Freedom" too.

In my case, I have enough jacketed bullets to last my lifetime. I use jacketed bullets for 'serious work'. Cast bullets work for plinking and training with the pistol calibers. I am set.

What "being set" means to others is a personal choice. Age, rounds per year, number of calibers and shooting needs vary. No one perfect answer for everyone.

It sounds like you intend to shoot a lot of jacketed .30 cals and good hunting bullets are now about $45/100. Corbin jackets are $26/100 (6500 bulk pack). Looks like with lead you are at $30/100 to swage your own. To breakeven on a $3000 investment, you need to make over 45k bullets.

IMO that is not cost effective as I value my time plus I am not wired to enjoy stuff like that. But it is "priceless" if things go south.

If I needed 50k Sierra GameKings I would get competitive bids from the large distributors and see what the numbers tell me.

[Idz]

I would suggest going the cheap route and try powder coated, gas checked bullets. You may find they are good enough for your needs.

[MUSTANG]

I mostly shoot .30 cal stuff some .224, Ive been away from the hobby for a while due to life and didnt notice that projectiles are now $.80 to $1.50 each for .30 cal. Seems insane to me. Now that Ive caught up with life, I shoot a good bit and Id actually save money by swaging bullets at this point. I dont have any equipment at all that is up to the task. I was just researching at Corbin's site and saw their low end press is $750ish and their mid is $1350ish. I wont say money is no object but their $2500ish caliber kit cost is no big deal. I can definitely spend more if necessary, but Id probably cap it at %50 more for press and 1 caliber. I absolutely cannot afford that super awesome hydraulic press they have. If anyone knows of some used stuff for sale Id be interested. I know there is a ton of knowledge here, if youre feeling generous I have lots of questions, here we go.

1. Is the low end press capable of 220gr .308 without lots of operator strain? Is the mid press better for that?

Yes; you can swage 220 Gr .308 with the Corbin S Press and 8s swage dies. If you get a longer hybrid nose profile die - I am not sure. Call Corbins. I recently got another Corbin /308 Swage die; A Corbin die will take 3 to 9 months to get unless they have them in stock in my recent experience.

2. Their marketing on it is pretty good. Is there a better one for the money?

3. Can I get a die that will give me a .308 hybrid ogive boat tail with adjustable weight from 175ish to 220ish?

Yes for an 8s or lower nose; for longer nose - Call Corbin.

4. Can I get a .224 die that I dont have to sort range .22lr for? I dont care if I have to buy tubing etc to make jackets. Not to insult others, its super cool you can make jackets from .22lr brass but I have a time/production economy. And picking up, cleaning, multiple swaging steps of .22lr does not make sense for me.

Corbin sells ready to go jackets for .224, .308, and others. Corbin also sells tubing that you can cut for making jackets. You will need another Jacket Making Die set if you do not buy the "Commercial Jackets".

5. Will the bullets from these dies expand reliably and make really solid hunting bullets? If not I dont think it makes sense for me.

Answer is Yes and No. Depends upon your jacket thickness & harness, and your lead core alloy (Corbin states to use only pure lead for cores - which will expand readily - many, like self will use other alloys rather than pure lead to make cores successfully. You will need to either buy could of lead wire of appropriate sized from Corbins/others, or get a core Mold and Core Swage die from Corbins for each caliber you swage for.

6. Can I expect sierra/nosler accuracy? Or am I compromising on that.

Dependent upon your swaging, reloading, and shooting abilities. I can and do make swaged bullets in .308 and .224 that shoot as well as those I can buy. YOU ARE THE QUALITY CONTROL.

7. Is there a better source for all of this equipment? I know BT is a member here, but he has no website so kinda hard to research his stuff. Is it as good? Better? Do I have to wait forever to get stuff from other suppliers? (To be honest, Im not super patient)

8. This should have been #1 is there a giant learning curve to swaging? There are lots of things you can do in casting to make great bullets from the first pour. If you dont know those things your first 50 pours are gonna be crap. If I were not aware of this forum Id still be making lots of crap bullets. Is it the same with swaging or can I expect a little set up and then make awesome bullets? (I dont mind a bit of a learning curve, Id just like to be aware of it and know how to mitigate my time wasting.)

Yes there will be a learning curve. Take your time, exhibit patience, evaluate anything that does not go as planned and make corrections. My recommendation is start with 1 to 10 swaged bullets. Analyze processes and output; then try again - development of the process you are performing and improving technique. With 100 bullets swage doing this you should be getting a good output. REMEMBER - YOU ARE THE QUALITY CONTROL, IDENTIFICATION OF ISSUES AND CORRECTIONS ARE YOUR JOB.

I really appreciate any answers you may have, especially if you have some expertise on the subject. If youre anywhere near Paris, Texas and wouldnt mind a guy watching you swage some bullets Id appreciate the initiation!

Thanks in advance fellas
Dan

I have a Corbin "S" Press and Swage .30 Cal from 5/16 Copper Tubing, 5.7 brass, cut down and sized .223 brass, and swage lead bullets from 96/3/1 lead.

[grullaguy]

I use BT dies to make 30 cal bullets using drawn down 5.56 brass for the jackets.
I will probably never pay off the investment, but making bullets from scratch is a pleasurable practice for me, despite being labor intensive.
Being in Canada, I can also sell my excess bullets to subsidize the original expense.

[adanymous]

Before long you might find yourself reloading your own primers. It's a sign of the times.

Ive started saving the spent ones....

[adanymous]

For those of you saying Id need to shoot alot to make it make sense. Ive shot in the neighborhood of 1200 .30 cal bullets in the last 2 months. Id shoot more but its HOT here in Texas.

I cast .308 for my .300 blackout guns, and doubt Ill stop doing that unless swaged bullets work better. But I dont think cast bullets would be very effective at longer ranges for high accuracy scenarios.

I used to be in the gun business and collected all kinds of weird stuff because I thought it was cool. Then I realized how I couldnt find reasonably priced ammo for lots of it. I sold off the weird stuff and decided to collect .30 cal stuff exclusively mostly .308 win. I probably have in the neighborhood of 20 of em. And not a single semi auto..... so I need at least 1 more. My non .308 win stuff is either still .30 cal except a couple .223s and 22-250s and some .25 cal stuff I haven played with in a while. I should play with those 25-06 guns more...


I work 8-5 3.5 days a week, Most of the rest of the time Im awake Im hanging out in my reloading/gun room. Its got great AC, a beer fridge, its quiet and I can have a cold beer, work a press and listen to an audiobook. I just finished converting 1000ish .223 to long necked .300AAC because I was out of stuff to do and regular .300 aac is too short for my custom ultra fancy savage 111 bolt action .300AAC to eject. Its very fancy, trust me. The point being I like pulling handles on presses. Its good wind down time.

Im not concerned with the cost too much because I have and awesome job and so does my wife. And unlimited job security. Also the cost of all reloading stuff has tripled in my lifetime. I doubt its gonna go down in value. When I decide Im done with it I can sell it. Id imagine the increase in cost of reloading equipment would at least keep up with inflation, so Id likely be better off invested in something of reasonably high value than keep cash in a shoebox. Plus a board member PMd me that he had pretty much exactly what I was looking for and would make me a reasonable deal on it! So I wont have to buy it new. Even better!

A con for swaging is that Lehigh defense is like 25 ish miles away. I could just drive to the bullet factory and ask if they would make me a deal on a large quantity. But I didnt see anything on their website that I found interesting. Their 175 "controlled chaos" is more that $1 each and i question their expansion philosophy. I want a good accurate bullet that will expand like a rem core lokt.

[KAYDADOG]

I started swaging my own bullets because it was a very interesting and involved hobby. Plus, you don't have to rely on anyone else to get them. Cost is always a factor and to do it right the first time it is going to be a substantial investment. 75% of my savings is due to me making all the equipment. Forty years of learning everything in the industry and getting my Elec.Engr. degree paid off for this hobby. Machining, hydraulics, electrical panel designing and PLC programming. Most of my expense is in five Corbin H-die sets and lead extruding die setup. For under $2500 I built a four-post automated hydraulic press, PLC controlled and color touchscreen to enter all variables and monitor current status. Not taking anything away from Corbin's press for around $11/K mine far surpasses his and has some safety features and capable of doing whatever you could think of by programming it. Most operations take less than seven seconds. You're moving very fast if you want to keep up this pace. I'm good for two or three hours max at a time, very repetitious. Why it's worth it, I can make any caliber for less than $0.05 each at around twelve hours per 1000 finished rounds. Of course, the younger you are most of your investment will eventually be paid off. After eight years probably most of the die sets have been paid for due to not buying any bullets.

Yes, I sent dverna samples of almost all the common calibers that I can make. He's always liked what I posted, and I wanted him to try some of the 9/mm bullets made from 9/mm drawn jackets and the others I've been making over the years. I sent 50-60 of the 9/mm's. Hopefully he'll be able to try them out one day. Pretty confident they will shoot as good as a factory jacketed bullet.

If you have the basics a good mill, lathe and of course a good electrical-mechanical background you're going to save a lot toward your initial investment making what you need. The press is the primary piece, annealing case is secondary but you're going to need something to do them. I use Corbin's H-Die type dies which I don't think you could ever break. Right now, they are still cheaper than the 7/8-14 dies sold on this forum by quite a bit. Right now, delivery is around a year plus. Still waiting for my last 45-70 die set.

If you're going to keep the hobby going for years, it will be well worth the effort and time put into it.
Just keep good records of every operation if you get to that point.

[adanymous]

That is awesome! Beyond my skill set but awesome! Im in the market for a lathe actually. I havent ran one since undergrad so I got some learning to do. There is a shopsmith or something similar lathe mill combo in the area for $2500 on marketplace. Thought about picking it up but doesnt come with any tooling. Im also not sure of the quality of that lathe. I like to work on rifles, savage mostly but willing to expand to others. Want to learn to contour barrels and thread muzzles, also blueprint actions. Its on my to do list. Prob have to wait a few months to get a lathe. I just paid for a moose/black bear hunt Im going on next month, and airfare.... So Im a bit poor for a little while. Im Also talking to a guy about buying a swaging set up, if I did that and a lathe (also currently taking flying lessons which isnt cheap) my wife would murder me!

[deltaenterprizes]

Check out Larry Blackmon of Bullet Swaging and Supply in Monroe Louisiana!

[Sasquatch-1]

Check out Larry Blackmon of Bullet Swaging and Supply in Monroe Louisiana!

Talking about a bargain...I just went to his site. If it is current, he lists his BSSP press and a 3 die set for under $600.00 plus 4% for credit card use.

[Lloyd Smale]

I am 72 and regret not getting into swaging 20-25 years ago. IMO it will take you 10 years to breakeven unless you shoot a lot. I am too old and do not shoot enough to start now.

I can buy Hornady 55 gr SP for $600/6000. Have not run the numbers, but doubt the savings woukd be worth the time. If you can make 100/hr, that means 60 hours of work. Even if the lead and jackets are “free”, you are netting $10/hr. And I doubt what you make will shoot any better.

If you do a lot of .30 cal shooting the numbers will likely be better. Just need to work the numbers for your case. I bought 1200 premium jacketed .30 cal bullets and will never use them up. They cost me less than $400. But I do not shoot the .308’s for fun.

IMO, being insulated from market conditions or government control is important. If I was younger that would be a prime reason to swage.

Doing it to save money is a long term endeavor and you need to enjoy doing it. For most poeople, they can buy a lifetime supply of factory bullets by the time they can afford good swaging equipment. We get old and run out of time to make the numbers work.

I see stuff on sale in the S&S section so keep an eye there to reduce your investment. Seen some decent deals in the last couple of months. But most of it is .22 cal IIRC.

i agree and if you want cheaper buy a 130 grain rcbs spitzer gas check mold and some pc powder. i shoot thousands of them out of my 300 bo's and my 300hmr and im sure if i shot my ar10 enough to bother i could work up a load for that too. like don said at a 100 bucks a thousand it isnt worth the bother for me to make 22 bullets. for the 3k your talking your talking 30000 ball bullets. thats a hell of alot of shooting even for me

[pertnear]

The reasons to want to start swaging your own jacketed bullets are many but saving money is not number one. As a member of this forum & you enjoy casting & reloading, then swaging is a great extension of your hobby/addiction. I bought my RF-jacket equipment & set-up from RCE during the obama era. My investment including dies, Seagirt press, lead wire, core-mold, tumbler, ultrasonic, etc was close to $1K. I'd venture to say it was a good investment as the demand for swaging equipment has remained high - that's my best money rationalization!

But swage because you like it & don't look back!

[jimrk]

I got into reloading and then swaging some years back and have enjoyed it and still do even though I don't do as much as I would like. I went with Richard Corbin gear (RCE) after talking with both Dave and Richard. Richard was the design master and Dave was the marketing guy when they were together. Richard has a wealth of knowledge. I have a Walnut Hill, Sea Girt, and what he called a Multi-swage. It is a simple hydraulic version he sold for awhile that I mostly use for making multi sizes of lead wire. I have quite a few of his die sets that work great. I even had him make me a set of pellet dies and one for slugs for the Crosman 1100 trapmaster. I would give him a call and let him know what you are wanting to do and he will provide good advise. He might even know if someone is interested in selling a Multi-swage but I doubt it. He did/does have some items from an estate he listed an ebay. If you go to wayback, enter http://rceco.com/MN.asp?pg=products&grp=40