Best Bore Solvent?

[Hannibal]

I agree with Montana Extreme but it is "Extreme" and I only use it for very stubborn firearm bores. Mostly use Hoppes 9 or homemade with Ballistol if not much leading or powder. Real bad gets JB after soaking with Kroil.

I'd still invest in a borescope before you do anything else. They're available for about $60.

I got a cheap one that plugs into my cellphone on Amazon for less than $20. Dropped a socket down the back of the engine on my F150 and I never would have found it without the scope.

I agree that anything is better than a flashlight down the bore.

[huntinlever]

You're right guys.

[jsizemore]

As long as you don't look, it's all good.

[schutzen-jager]

As long as you don't look, it's all good.

even if it looks bad, it can still be an accurate shooter -

[huntinlever]

even if it looks bad, it can still be an accurate shooter -

Good point - and that's my only concern, along with wanting to keep the action in good shape. As I don't have experience with these finer points, hard for me to know, but it's always a cost-benefit for me....what's needed to meet the goal of a reliable and humane shooter for the hunting field, out to my hunting range.

[schutzen-jager]

jmho - if you are not a barrel maker or high end custom accuracy smith bore scopes are not needed + can cause more problems than they alleviate - a few years ago one my clubs top scoring bench rest shooter bought a high end bore scope + after looking at bore decided he needed a new barrel - + had it replaced with quality match barrel - after much tuning + load experimenting he tried to buy his old barrel back but smith had already sold it -

[Hannibal]

jmho - if you are not a barrel maker or high end custom accuracy smith bore scopes are not needed + can cause more problems than they alleviate - a few years ago one my clubs top scoring bench rest shooter bought a high end bore scope + after looking at bore decided he needed a new barrel - + had it replaced with quality match barrel - after much tuning + load experimenting he tried to buy his old barrel back but smith had already sold it -

There's a HUGE difference between evaluating the effectiveness of cleaning solvents and predicting accuracy with a borescope. One is reliable, the other amounts to something similar to reading tea leaves.

Personally I'd let the borescope tell you if the solvent works and the target tell you if the barrel is good.

[schutzen-jager]

jmho - the bore scope - will not reliably show all forms of contaminants in lands + does nothing to check problems related to dimensional variations + soft or hard spots in barrel steel - -

[M-Tecs]

Borescopes are a visual of the conditions, issues or lack of issues a bore MIGHT have. Nothing more. The target is the only absolute with the exception possibly of bad throats. I have yet to see a target rifle shoot extremely well with throat issues.

Even with cleaning super clean isn't always the best. Some barrels performance with a bit of "seasoning". I've had a couple of NRA match rifles that for the first 20 rounds didn't like being super clean. It wasn't an issue for across the course matches since you fired 200 yard standing first. With 600 yard only belly matches it was a very real issue.

As a builder I love borescopes for my use. For customers the more OCD they are the less I like them to have borescopes. They find too may rabbit holes to go down.

[Hannibal]

jmho - the bore scope - will not reliably show all forms of contaminants in lands + does nothing to check problems related to dimensional variations + soft or hard spots in barrel steel - -

That's what the target tells you. Did you not see what I posted earlier? And how cheap is the borescope if you can't see fouling in the lands? A $60 Teslong will show you that easily.

This ain't Sci-Fi anymore folks.

If you're scared of what you might see don't look. Read your patches and be happy.
But don't put out misinformation because you have a phobia.

[Hogtamer]

Tobacco juice

[huntinlever]

Tobacco juice

Lol, well, that tops peeing down the bore, I guess.

[huntinlever]

At the end of the day I have only two goals: to preserve the firearm, and to ensure I shoot accurately enough at the hunting range I'm after to consistently kill well. I've got a HUGE tendency to overthink and it's been a learning curve to accept "good enough" is exactly that. Like trying to dial in MOA on a 45-70. Nice, but talk about a rabbit hole...

[Hannibal]

At the end of the day I have only two goals: to preserve the firearm, and to ensure I shoot accurately enough at the hunting range I'm after to consistently kill well. I've got a HUGE tendency to overthink and it's been a learning curve to accept "good enough" is exactly that. Like trying to dial in MOA on a 45-70. Nice, but talk about a rabbit hole...

Rifles like that decimated the Buffalo. Pretty sure those guys never heard of MOA.

Me thinks you're confusing precision with accuracy.

[huntinlever]

Rifles like that decimated the Buffalo. Pretty sure those guys never heard of MOA.

Me thinks you're confusing precision with accuracy.

Yes, I am, and I knew that going in. I think Larry Gibson pointed that out somewhere, never knew the difference before that. Sorry for the sloppiness. Counting on a level of precision that allows me to kill well consistently, and preserving the gun. Them's my only goals.

MOA....yes, even knowing that, didn't stop me from wasting time and components chasing it. Ergo, my problem.

[Hannibal]

Yes, I am, and I knew that going in. I think Larry Gibson pointed that out somewhere, never knew the difference before that. Sorry for the sloppiness. Counting on a level of precision that allows me to kill well consistently, and preserving the gun. Them's my only goals.

MOA....yes, even knowing that, didn't stop me from wasting time and components chasing it. Ergo, my problem.

It's fine, Sir. Just pointing out that you might be thinking about 2 different disciplines at once which will cause you problems.

[huntinlever]

It's fine, Sir. Just pointing out that you might be thinking about 2 different disciplines at once which will cause you problems.

Appreciate it as always.

[Bigslug]

At the end of the day I have only two goals: to preserve the firearm, and to ensure I shoot accurately enough at the hunting range I'm after to consistently kill well. I've got a HUGE tendency to overthink and it's been a learning curve to accept "good enough" is exactly that. Like trying to dial in MOA on a 45-70. Nice, but talk about a rabbit hole...

So here are my main perceptions regarding the tendency to "overthink" bore cleaning:

1. Many of us grew up with handed down methods of cleaning a barrel from 3-5 generations ago when the system of propulsion was corrosive. Outside of black powder and shooting old milsurp ammo, we don't have to worry about that anymore, yet the "religion" of stripping down the bore to bare metal persists. That religion is dying hard - even among those of us that know better - simply because warding off the specter of "bore cancer" was hammered into us.

2. The goal of accurate shooting is to make everything for the next shot exactly the same as it was on the last shot. If bullet fit and bore polish are good and you're not laying down copper or lead deposits, all you ARE laying down is non-corrosive smokeless powder residue and (most likely) a wax and petroleum-based bullet lube that will be at least somewhat rust-preventative. This surface will largely be repeatedly purged and replaced every shot.

3. The Olympic-level smallbore shooters pretty much NEVER clean a barrel until it gets to the point of not delivering the goods, and after doing so, they probably won't expect good results again until they get 20-50 fresh rounds through it.

Ultimately the question to ask is "What are my reasons for barrel cleaning at all, and how valid are they?" This is not to be confused with the maintenance required to keep the mechanism of the gun functional.

For the bulk of the year where I'm practicing with my cast loads, I pull a boresnake with CLP on it at the end of the shooting session - - mainly because that stupid, aforementioned "religion" is still in my head. This is not a functional problem as most of my practice if offhand, unsupported on milk jugs at 100 yards, and if the oil and snaking have a negative affect, the load still stays within the limits of myself and my target. For actual hunting season, I scrub the barrel out with CLP, dry the oil out completely out with a few patches of 90% rubbing alcohol, then fire two rounds of the Barnes bullet load I hunt with to lay down that consistent fouling layer. I stretch a balloon over the muzzle to keep rain and twigs out, and that's all it gets until a deer dies or the season ends, whichever comes first. Granted, my climate is dry and my barrels are stainless - carbon steel and wetter conditions might have me alter that practice somewhat. I'm going through this for rifles with trajectories that allow a point blank hold to about 300 yards and custom elevation dials that max out at around 600-700. As we've discussed before, your Marlin is a mortar - a handy and extremely useful mortar to be sure, but still a mortar. Your best effort will be in the pursuit of a load that shoots groups half the size or tighter from the bench as you can off-hand with zero artificial support, and practicing with the goal of making the offhand groups as snug as the benched ones. Generally, you will find that we are much worse shots than our guns are. If you determine that your bench groups improve or get worse as you go from the total spotlessness of freshly cleaned to whatever passes for a fouled condition with your load, you can modify your process, but if the best and worst shots all fall within a softball's radius of your point of aim at a hundred yards with that brush gun, there really is no practical point to the exercise.

Good enough, like you say.

[challenger_i]

Well, after researching different bore solvents, I believe I have found why Hoppe's #9 smells so well (to the point of my Lil' Brown Eye'd Girl wanting to steal my stash!): one constituent ingredient is Isoamyl Acetate. Banana oil. Go figure!

[SoonerEd]

Ok I'll take a shot at explaining

Red's Red - I use this as my general cleaner especially
1) Clean general fouling before using something else
2) Shotguns
3) Clean Shooters Choice from barrel prior to using Sweets. Per general lore those two don't mix well.
4) General castboolits and low velocity jacketed bullets where Cooper fouling is unlikely to be a problem.
5) As solvent to clean gunk off metal parts.

Hoppes #9 - cast boolits. Sometime just to try something different and to make sure the Eds Red is working. So far I don't recall Hoppes getting stuff out after a barrel has been cleaned with Eds except it sometimes seems to get lead out better than other stuff except vinegar and hydrogen peroxide.

Shooters Choice MC7 - Use this on jacketed bullets after cleaning fouling out with Eds Red. Especially useful on bullets running in the mid to high 2,00 into the low 4,000 fps.

Sweets - Use on the situations same as Shooters Choice whenShooters Choice doesn't seem to be aggressive enough. Or, if for some reason I'm impatient and needing to get the copper out quick...like when shooting prairie dogs. Don't forget to clean the Shooter Choice out with another solvent before using Sweets. This may be a old wive's tale...but this is the consensus among bench rest shooters I know and they know much more than me. And, several i know have used borescopes to check for issues.

Kroil with JB compound - several situations i use it for
1) High velocity cooper bullets with match grade barrels shooting Moly coated bullets.
2) If Shooters Choice and Sweets don't work to remove Cooper fouling...patch keeps coming out green or blue and it's not from bronze jag.
3) If I think a barrel is clean and I've done everything else but still having accuracy problems that didn't use to exist.