MG 34, Danish Madsen Boolits

[FabMan]

A club member is asking for recommendations on casting for these two FA MG’s.
Both in 8mm. He will be using .30 LC converted cases and try to use cast in them.
Anyone have experience with this?
I was looking at heavy 240 molds and powder coat. With or without gas checks?
Not sure what powder would be best to cycle them. Would excessive heat from long burst make this impossible?

[Larry Gibson]

Many years back I helped a fellow develop cast bullet loads for and MG 34. He cast Lyman 323481s out of a 4 cavity mould. He used older COWWs which still had a bit of tin in them and WQ the bullets out of the mould. When GC'd with Hornady GCs and lubed with Javelina or Tamarack they weighed 190 +/- gr. He loaded them over a case [also formed from .30 cal cases] full of surplus 4831. No Idea of the velocity as I didn't yet have a chronograph. Firing semi they seemed as accurate as some milsurp 8mm he had. On auto the gave a good cone of fire out to 200 yards which was all he wanted them for. The MG 34 fires from an open bolt as even the recent legal semi only versions do. Thus, a hot barrel from extended FA or rapid fire did not seem to cause any problems.

Sorry, no idea about PC'd bullets in the MG 34 but I'd recommend GCs be used anyway.

The use of an RCBS X-Die will eliminate case stretching on subsequent resizing's and also eliminate the need for trimming.

[FabMan]

Thanks Larry,
I saw some heavier 8mm molds and was hoping the 240 grain would cycle the action better?
A side benefit may be less powder used and no gas checks with powder coat. My semi autos seem to feed better with heaver slugs.

[Rockindaddy]

I have several water cooled Maxims. As 8mm x 57mm surplus ammo becomes less and less available; I figure I will have to shoot hard cast lead boolits in commercial cases. Have about 500 new 8mm cases saved. Just have to find a heavy boolit that will cycle the gun. a 323 dia 4-cavity mould around 220grs might work! Had a friend who had a Browning ANM2 aircraft gun who loaded cast 220 gr hard lead boolits and shot them out of the gun (air cooled) until it got so hot the cases stuck in the chamber. He was then done shooting!

[haak48]

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...325365-in-MG34 I've had good luck with the NOE bullet & IMR4350 some time back in my MG34. One correction though Larry, SA MG34's require closed bolt operation consisting of massive bolt (and receiver) mods. My 34's are C&R FA guns, much easier to work with when it comes to melting lube from the hot barrel from a chambered round. Regards, JH

[TD1886]

If you powder coat I'd still gas check them. A tip for pc is you do not want a harder cast bullet and WW's may be too hard. You want to size them either for the throat size if you like a little larger then bore/groove size, but I've been told best was closer to groove size. You expand the necks as though for jacketed bullet. In other words treat pc like jacketed. I might suggest the Lyman 323471 bullet or the NOE copy. Do those MG 34's you have, have a fluted chamber?

[haak48]

Not the OP, but the MG34 does not use fluted chambers. Regards, JH

[TD1886]

Not the OP, but the MG34 does not use fluted chambers. Regards, JH

I thought it may have as I believe the MG42 did.

[haak48]

The MG42 used a standard chamber design as well. The FG42 also had a very unique "stepped" chamber. AFAIK, the only fluted chambers were on prototype weapons in 1945. Regards, JH

[FabMan]

Thanks all!
NOE has some heavy spire point molds. Would a no lube grove design be better with powder coat?
Some of these boolits may have to be seated too deep in the case. Gas checks well below the neck.
I was trying to come up with a load that used 230 grain powder coated slugs without gas checks that would provide the inertia to cycle his bolt.

[TD1886]

The MG42 used a standard chamber design as well. The FG42 also had a very unique "stepped" chamber. AFAIK, the only fluted chambers were on prototype weapons in 1945. Regards, JH

Some of the MG42's did have flutes. I have a friend that has been in the industry most of his life. Those barrels were hammer forged and he was at the museum in Germany that had one of the mandrels and it showed the flutes on it. He actually got to handle it. He brought this up arguing with a Russian in the industry said that they couldn't do that.

[haak48]

Some of the MG42's did have flutes. I have a friend that has been in the industry most of his life. Those barrels were hammer forged and he was at the museum in Germany that had one of the mandrels and it showed the flutes on it. He actually got to handle it. He brought this up arguing with a Russian in the industry said that they couldn't do that.

Interesting. Other than the STG45M assault rifle, I think the first belt-fed LMG with delayed blow-back/ fluted chambers I'm aware of, (other than prototypes) was the French AA52. The violent delayed roller system generally requires fluting to aid with extraction to keep the case heads on the fired brass from being torn off. H&K postwar small-arms perfected this design, though there were others. Regards, JH

[TD1886]

Interesting. Other than the STG45M assault rifle, I think the first belt-fed LMG with delayed blow-back/ fluted chambers I'm aware of, (other than prototypes) was the French AA52. The violent delayed roller system generally requires fluting to aid with extraction to keep the case heads on the fired brass from being torn off. H&K postwar small-arms perfected this design, though there were others. Regards, JH

The Germans invented hammer forging barrels in 1939. Read the link I'm sending to see the whole story and it does mention that the MG42 was hammer forged.

https://firearmshistory.blogspot.com...er-forged.html

[Larry Gibson]

haak48

You are, no doubt, correct. When it cools down a bit I've got to get up there for the pressure testing and, maybe, a bit of FA shooting........

[haak48]

haak48

You are, no doubt, correct. When it cools down a bit I've got to get up there for the pressure testing and, maybe, a bit of FA shooting........

Sounds like a plan Larry. We could cook an egg on the sidewalk here, but I'll bet you could do a roast in your garage down there on the river..you might even have to crack the door a bit to keep from burning it!
As to the Op's question, I always wondered if powder coating would help with the lead deposits that build up quickly in MG boosters. It would certainly make a difference in closed bolt Mg's like the Vickers and Browning as far as lube melting off during lapses in firing. I just don't need to go down another rabbit hole. Regards, JH

[Larry Gibson]

My buddy with the SA got back and you are certainly correct [I had no doubt], the SA MG 34 does fire from the closed bolt. My bad.....
However, the OP asks about FA MG 34s which should be firing from the open bolt.

I was hoping PC'd bullets would alleviate the lead deposit build up in my 45 suppressor, but after 200 rounds of PC'd 230 gr bullets over 5 gr Bullseye I fine no difference in the lead build up from that of lubed bullets.

[haak48]

"I was hoping PC'd bullets would alleviate the lead deposit build up in my 45 suppressor, but after 200 rounds of PC'd 230 gr bullets over 5 gr Bullseye I fine no difference in the lead build up from that of lubed bullets. "
Alas, my experiences with commercial PCd bullets in SMG's with suppressors is the same as yours. Regards, JH

[TD1886]

My buddy with the SA got back and you are certainly correct [I had no doubt], the SA MG 34 does fire from the closed bolt. My bad.....
However, the OP asks about FA MG 34s which should be firing from the open bolt.

I was hoping PC'd bullets would alleviate the lead deposit build up in my 45 suppressor, but after 200 rounds of PC'd 230 gr bullets over 5 gr Bullseye I fine no difference in the lead build up from that of lubed bullets.

Larry for you and Haak48. I have a friend that shoots supressed AR's. He does so because of where he lives not to disturb the neighbors. He switched from lubed cast claiming they dirtied the device and I can't remember from lube, lead, or both. Anyways he switched to PC and said they are clean as a whistle. Now here's the catch. He's shooting full jacketed velocity and claims he's at a 1.5 MOA accuracy level. Let me tell you he's a very knowledgeable reloader. He's the one giving me tips on shooting PC at high velocity. I believe I surpassed him with of all rifles my M1 Garand. I'm surprised you have the same level of fouling with both PC and lubed cast. I do believe if you were shooting supressed rifles and pushing the velocity like my friend that the lubed cast would foul far more then PC.

[FabMan]

I’m probably over thinking it but would like to do it right instead of buying more molds than I need.
Slower burning surplus powders used to be a bargain and primers are high but it would be more cost efficient seeing what even Turk 8mm goes for. And this is just going to be blasting ammo.