Which 45-70 lever action?

[BNE]

A 45-70 lever is on my someday list. A friend of mine wants one NOW!

Which brand do you recommend and why?

I like the guide guns, but he prefers the full length.

[BLAHUT]

I have the guide gun and like it a lot, 515gr bear loads, I have a 45/60 lever, full length, its OK. Try them all; if you can, then see what you like ????

[Kestrel4k]

Sorry to be 'that guy' :-/ but would your friend have any interest in a 444Marlin instead of the 45-70 ?

/If/ he wants to mostly shoot jacketed - the 444 with all those inexpensive 0.429's - is a much more practical choice for a reloader; just sayin' ...

[BNE]

Sorry to be 'that guy' :-/ but would your friend have any interest in a 444Marlin instead of the 45-70 ?

/If/ he wants to mostly shoot jacketed - the 444 with all those inexpensive 0.429's - is a much more practical choice for a reloader; just sayin' ...

He knows a caster that is willing to do load development for free. Just saying.

He had a 45-70 when he was a teenager. That’s what he wants now.

[TD1886]

1886 Winchester either Winchester or Browning as they both are made in Japan. I have a older Browning 1886 Carbine (still made in Japan) and it's a tack driver for real. The worship on mine is flawless and the function of the rifle is really good. Mine is just a standard model, but it snuck out of the factory with a AA Walnut buttstock.

[Rockindaddy]

Buy an older Marlin 1895 in 45-70 Govt Elmer Keith's favorite Elk load was a 400gr Speer and 53 grs of 3031 I have piled up many a whitetail. Shot one at 175 yards. A peep sight works best in big timber and running deer.

[Tall]

Agree. I had a Marlin 1895 in 45-70 and it was very reliable and very accurate.

[GregLaROCHE]

Is he considering new or used? If used he may find a nice Marlin from before the company was bought and resold. My 1895 from the mid eighties, served me well and is still going strong. I only replaced the two part firing pin with a solid one, when it had too much wear and was causing misfires.

[BNE]

Thanks for the input. Probably prefers new.

[Mk42gunner]

I've never shot a Henry center fire rifle, but their looks don't appeal to me. They may be great guns, no personal knowledge.

Marlin 1895 (Modern version, i.e. a restyled 336, not the larger original). The normal 22" version isn't bad, but if he could find one the 1895 CB would be my choice.

1886 either the original Winchester or the Miroku made Winchester or Browning would be fine if he doesn't mind a heavy rifle.

Robert

[TD1886]

From all that I have read Ruger is making a better 1895 and with much smoother rifling and it has to be as it's hammer forged. I won't mention some very old knowledges gunwriters that review the new Ruger, but has owned them all his shooting life and compare the new one with several of his older ones and not only was it more accurate, the action was much smoother then well worn in one.

Me I don't like certain Marlins and for 45-70 I much prefer the 1886 Browning/Winchester over the Marlin.......except for one feature. You can mount a scope on the Marlin easier if you need one.

[TD1886]

I've never shot a Henry center fire rifle, but their looks don't appeal to me. They may be great guns, no personal knowledge.

Marlin 1895 (Modern version, i.e. a restyled 336, not the larger original). The normal 22" version isn't bad, but if he could find one the 1895 CB would be my choice.

1886 either the original Winchester or the Miroku made Winchester or Browning would be fine if he doesn't mind a heavy rifle.

Robert

The 1886 Carbine isn't all that heavy, and no I'm not telling you that it's not heavy at all, but the full length rifle, expecially with an octogon barrel is WAY too heavy. My carbine weighs around 8 lbs. I believe the Marlin weighs 7.5.

[huntinlever]

Buy an older Marlin 1895 in 45-70 Govt Elmer Keith's favorite Elk load was a 400gr Speer and 53 grs of 3031 I have piled up many a whitetail. Shot one at 175 yards. A peep sight works best in big timber and running deer.

Didn't know that, thanks for the reference. Just read the "pumpkin roller" article. (Warning - .pdf). http://www.elmerkeithshoot.org/Ameri...ithPumpkin.pdf

Among other things:

"....round ball, cast a little oversize and backed either with a light charge of black powder or around six or seven grains of Du Pont No. 5, for rabbits and grouse...."

Rabbits and grouse? Guess it's not "overkill" for deer any more!

[TD1886]

Didn't know that, thanks for the reference. Just read the "pumpkin roller" article. (Warning - .pdf). http://www.elmerkeithshoot.org/Ameri...ithPumpkin.pdf

Among other things:

"....round ball, cast a little oversize and backed either with a light charge of black powder or around six or seven grains of Du Pont No. 5, for rabbits and grouse...."

Rabbits and grouse? Guess it's not "overkill" for deer any more!

Paul you may like the collar button bullet load. Mihec moulds has one. Very light short bullet and you shoot if over a small charge of the ORIGINAL WW231 powder. Very accurate and you hardly feel the rifle go off.

Here's the link to the mould/bullet

https://www.mp-molds.com/product/mp-...-cav-aluminum/

You could BP too!

[huntinlever]

Paul you may like the collar button bullet load. Mihec moulds has one. Very light short bullet and you shoot if over a small charge of the ORIGINAL WW231 powder. Very accurate and you hardly feel the rifle go off.

Here's the link to the mould/bullet

https://www.mp-molds.com/product/mp-...-cav-aluminum/

You could BP too!

! Holy cow! I had no idea - cool.

[huntinlever]

Other thing I'm coming across from the article is that he definitely doesn't shy from the higher potential velocities and pressures of the Level II rifles like the '86 or '95 Winchester - 1800-1900 fps for the 405 grain soft nose. He also mentions Du Pont 4198, at this velocity, and 48-50 grains for this 405. I don't know the provenance of the modern IMR 4198 but I'm sure you guys do. It's interesting to me because though I always got great results with either the 405 or 425 grain from Accurate's 46-405VG/425Q, with a stiff 39.7 grains and 1700ish fps IMR 4198 . I've seen a lot of counsel to pull it back as unnecessary, and am pleased to say I've come to see 5744 indeed a great worker at the milder loads.

I didn't know his views here. Just interesting to me that Keith was fine pushing this thing up there to the faster velocities, and he doesn't see it as needless hot-rodding. Makes me want to read more of him (I've his big-game book in my cart).

[TD1886]

Other thing I'm coming across from the article is that he definitely doesn't shy from the higher potential velocities and pressures of the Level II rifles like the '86 or '95 Winchester - 1800-1900 fps for the 405 grain soft nose. He also mentions Du Pont 4198, at this velocity, and 48-50 grains for this 405. I don't know the provenance of the modern IMR 4198 but I'm sure you guys do. It's interesting to me because though I always got great results with either the 405 or 425 grain from Accurate's 46-405VG/425Q, with a stiff 39.7 grains and 1700ish fps IMR 4198 . I've seen a lot of counsel to pull it back as unnecessary, and am pleased to say I've come to see 5744 indeed a great worker at the milder loads.

I didn't know his views here. Just interesting to me that Keith was fine pushing this thing up there to the faster velocities, and he doesn't see it as needless hot-rodding. Makes me want to read more of him (I've his big-game book in my cart).

Thing is you really don't have to punish yourself with the recoil from the 45-70 high velocity loads. It's amazing what the 45-70 will do at the original velocity that it came out with. Especially true of your rifle is light.

[GregLaROCHE]

I always was content with four in the tube. I had four rounds duct taped to the stock also. When you add more rounds, it adds weight and further out, that weight is leveraged.

[huntinlever]

Thing is you really don't have to punish yourself with the recoil from the 45-70 high velocity loads. It's amazing what the 45-70 will do at the original velocity that it came out with. Especially true of your rifle is light.

I hear you. It's been a learning curve for me to trust shoulder-breaking loads are way over the top unnecessary. Glad to have found this moderate 5744 load that works. Still - great, you know? - when a guy like Keith comes along and basically touts 1900 fps on a 405 grain bullet, well....scratches a phantom itch. "If Keith does it.....".

I'm doing my best to trust that good old 1450 or so fps - knowing much tamer loads pass through a bison without an issue.

[gpidaho]

BNE I have no complaints with my Henry 45-70 Mild to wild, accuracy is good. Gp