32 Long Load Request

[Oregon_Dan]

Wayne,
I really appreciate your offer! A question, which mold were you referring to? I know Froggie has a 313445, that he likes a bunch, and I am thinking that is the one you are referring to? I am really hoping by Fall, I will have come up with either an original, or a current remake!

[Wayne Smith]

Mine is the Lee group buy Keith 32. A whole series of Keith style boolits were run back in the day. This was, I think, the last of the series? I jumped on it when it was run, Froggie didn't. He came late to the party but was able to locate one.

[Oregon_Dan]

I've been using Arsenal Molds 98gr Keith http://arsenalmolds.com/products?product_id=60 for both 32 S&W Long and 32 H&R Magnum. I can't offer any load data at this time because I'm still working on it. I loaded the 32 Mag first. I've got a couple of different powders loaded for 32 S&W Long, but haven't had a chance to shoot them over the chronograph yet.

billmc2
Would you please keep me posted on how that bullet works for you with the 32 Long cartridge? I have been a fan of Keith style bullets for a few decades, and that bullet is one that I have been eyeballing!!

[Green Frog]

OD,

That so-called “Keith Bullet” 32 caliber is a modern construct based on scaling down the Keith designs in 44 & 357 to .314 diameter. As friend Wayne mentioned, it was a group buy project made by Lee. Old Elmer himself is said to have observed that he never felt the need to design a 32 revolver bullet as he regarded the Ideal 3118 as all that was needed.

IIRC, there is/was a similar bullet design made by RCBS in a DC iron mould, and others like NOE and Accurate have also taken a stab at similar designs.

If I were going to go on a quest for a “dream bullet” for the 32 revolvers, I would probably devote my efforts to finding the late, lamented Lyman 313631 that was designed when the 32 H&R came out. My friend beagle acquired one and had a machinist to ream out the gas check rings. Then, not willing to leave well enough alone, he had one chamber drilled to cast hollow points. He has fixed me up with a bunch of HPs and solids that are great to shoot. I also was attracted to Lee’s tumble lubed SWC mould. I believe it’s still available as a DC but it also came out years ago as a group buy 4 cav version. That’s the thing about 32 revolvers, you can spend years exploring all the good bullets you wish. With the K32 you are getting you will have an excess margin of safety to enable any sane 32 S&W L round you would like.

Enjoy,
Froggie

[billmc2]

billmc2
Would you please keep me posted on how that bullet works for you with the 32 Long cartridge? I have been a fan of Keith style bullets for a few decades, and that bullet is one that I have been eyeballing!!

I haven't been shooting it a lot because I've been playing with other calibers more recently.

My rememberer doesn't work as well as it once did, you'll probably need to ask me about it again. I have the aluminum mold and the bullets drop out fairly easily.

[Oregon_Dan]

OD,

That so-called “Keith Bullet” 32 caliber is a modern construct based on scaling down the Keith designs in 44 & 357 to .314 diameter. As friend Wayne mentioned, it was a group buy project made by Lee. Old Elmer himself is said to have observed that he never felt the need to design a 32 revolver bullet as he regarded the Ideal 3118 as all that was needed.

IIRC, there is/was a similar bullet design made by RCBS in a DC iron mould, and others like NOE and Accurate have also taken a stab at similar designs.

If I were going to go on a quest for a “dream bullet” for the 32 revolvers, I would probably devote my efforts to finding the late, lamented Lyman 313631 that was designed when the 32 H&R came out. My friend beagle acquired one and had a machinist to ream out the gas check rings. Then, not willing to leave well enough alone, he had one chamber drilled to cast hollow points. He has fixed me up with a bunch of HPs and solids that are great to shoot. I also was attracted to Lee’s tumble lubed SWC mould. I believe it’s still available as a DC but it also came out years ago as a group buy 4 cav version. That’s the thing about 32 revolvers, you can spend years exploring all the good bullets you wish. With the K32 you are getting you will have an excess margin of safety to enable any sane 32 S&W L round you would like.

Enjoy,
Froggie

Froggie,
I am aware the group buy is a modern construct, based, as I understand it on a mold designed by Glen Fryxel. Like I said, I am a fan of Keith styled bullets. Things with big meplats, but longer than a traditional wadcutter. My experience is that they are generally accurate, and work well on game. I also look longingly at the SAECO 325 bullet.

I do have a 3118 mold, but it cast bullets of 120grs. I think, based on absolutly no field experience as of yet, that my ideal would be a bullet of 95 to 100grs. That said, I will certainly yield to those who do have experience with this cartridge!

You may already be aware, but Arsenal Molds makes a clone of the Lyman 313631. It is available in either flat base or gas check. Or is your heart set on an original Lyman? I take it Beagles bullets worked very well for you???

Dan

[Green Frog]

Indeed they did! My problem now is that I have an “embarrassment of riches” in my abundance of dream moulds. My biggest problem now is that I’m too trifling to cast, load, and shoot this variety of 32s. The situation only got more extreme when my shooting buddy Dale53 “retired” from shooting and I ended up with even more 32 moulds. I’ll have to live to be at least a hundred to do justice to all this stuff!
Green Frog

[Mk42gunner]

I have not tried the 311316 nor my Group buy 314-120 (kinda sorta a copy of the 311008) in any of my .32 S&W Longs. Mainly because my 95 grain loads tend to shoot just a bit high from my fixed sight guns, no sense making it even higher.

The heavier projectiles may be fine with your adjustable sights, may not either. One way to find out.

I came to the .32 S&W Long table late, I already had a Ruger SSM in .32 H&R; so I didn't try to make the Long any more powerful than it needed to be to poke holes in paper.

Robert

[Green Frog]

I have not tried the 311316 nor my Group buy 314-120 (kinda sorta a copy of the 311008) in any of my .32 S&W Longs. Mainly because my 95 grain loads tend to shoot just a bit high from my fixed sight guns, no sense making it even higher.

The heavier projectiles may be fine with your adjustable sights, may not either. One way to find out.

I came to the .32 S&W Long table late, I already had a Ruger SSM in .32 H&R; so I didn't try to make the Long any more powerful than it needed to be to poke holes in paper.

Robert

That's the beauty of the 32 caliber family of revolvers. There's a case length and a loading available to make anyone happy. Once you get into quality revolvers in good condition, more and more reloads become an option for you.
Froggie

[Mk42gunner]

Yes sir. It also makes you appreciate adjustable sights on a handgun even more.

Robert

[NuJudge]

I shoot .32 S&W-L through a Walther GSP semiauto. I has very large groove diameters (.314"). If I try to shoot undersize bullets, groups are huge. A lot of bullets, such as the Speer 98gr HBWC are advertised as .314", but actually are smaller than that. I re-swage the Speers, then they shoot very well. There is a swager named Bear Creek which makes decent bullets.

Beware of using StarLine brass with HBWC bullets. For such bullets, I need to expand the case down to the base of the bullet. With StarLine brass, the web is thick enough, and extends high enough, that you get a belt in the middle of the case. Lapua is best for such bullets. A few other brands will work.

[Outpost75]

I shoot .32 S&W-L through a Walther GSP semiauto. I has very large groove diameters (.314"). If I try to shoot undersize bullets, groups are huge. A lot of bullets, such as the Speer 98gr HBWC are advertised as .314", but actually are smaller than that. I re-swage the Speers, then they shoot very well. There is a swager named Bear Creek which makes decent bullets.

Beware of using StarLine brass with HBWC bullets. For such bullets, I need to expand the case down to the base of the bullet. With StarLine brass, the web is thick enough, and extends high enough, that you get a belt in the middle of the case. Lapua is best for such bullets. A few other brands will work.

Fiocchi wadcutter brass is also highly satisfactory if you cannot find Lapua or Sako.

[Oregon_Dan]

I came to the .32 S&W Long table late, I already had a Ruger SSM in .32 H&R; so I didn't try to make the Long any more powerful than it needed to be to poke holes in paper.

Robert

I am thinking that I probably came to the table even later than you did, but I am certainly enjoying the journey at this point! It has sort of reinstated my interest in casting, loading, and if the weather ever cooperates, shooting!!

[Green Frog]

I honestly don’t have anything new to add to the discussion today, but want to keep it up and active. I just completed passing my SC Lyman 313445 mould to Oregon Dan, but am ready to do some casting that should include that bullet from the DC mould of that number that I kept. It’s just a gift that keeps on giving!

I really need to cast up a bunch of bullets from the Lee TL mould for a 32 SWC. I got the 6 cav one Dale53 had from a long ago group buy, and hope (believe) it will be a good replacement for the Hornady swaged SWC they used to make and sell reasonably in 500 rd boxes. Those tiny little boxes went an amazingly great distance!

For full wadcutters I’m torn between the (discontinued) Hornady HB swaged version and the products of the (MP? NOE?) mould I got, or solid versions like the Lee TL (thanks Dale53 for the 6 cavity mould) and the near mythical Lyman 313492 with “the cute little button nose”. I also got a double ender MP mould from Dale53 but he warned me it doesn’t release the bullets well, and life’s too short to deal with frustrating moulds, especially when so many other good ones are out there.

By now you should understand my “complaint” about my embarrassment of riches in 32 cal moulds, and there are a couple of others I haven’t mentioned like the Ideal 3118 at 115+ gr and the NOE “copy” of it that runs 125 gr. I’ve decided to go with the flow and save these two for longer than 32 S&W Long cases.

I found a big batch (at least 500 or more) 311316 bullets, sized, lubed and checked that followed me home from somewhere, but I don’t think I’ll be looking for that mould. I really hate fooling with GCs. In fact, the only mould I’m still considering is the Arsenal Moulds copy of the Lyman 313631 cut with PB.

By now it should be abundantly clear that a person could start shooting and developing loads for the 32 S&W L and spend the rest of his life without exhausting the possibilities, and even if they did, there would still be 32 H&R and 327 Fed Mag to explore.

Enjoy!
Froggie

[Oregon_Dan]

Froggie,
Not wanting it to die either. There has been a lot of good information given here by a lot of folks! As soon as life stops getting in my way, I intend to start putting up the results of my load testing. But firrst I need to be able to get out an shoot......

Dan P

[Green Frog]

Dan, from our PMs and your posts here it’s obvious to me that you’re a “true believer” in the 32. Just like me though, there are a variety of other life matters that get in the way of a serious, full time shooting program. I only ask that you keep us informed of your experiences and load development (good and bad) and others of in the “amen corner” will be encouraged to join in as well.

BTW, would any of the rest of your like to take this up to the 32 Retinue group, or does the ease of posting pictures here make this part of the site more desirable?

Froggie

[Oregon_Dan]

Well guys, I finally got out to try the loads I have been sitting on for way too long! Kudos to Engineer401 for donating the RCBS 98gr SWC's, The Arsenal 90gr SWC, and the Lee 85gr RN bullets, and for the RCBS mold. Also thanks to Froggie for the 313445 mold! Some of you may recognize your suggested loads.

All groups were shot from a Ransom Rest at 25yds, with my S&W m16-3. Conditions were MUCH windier than I would have liked. But sometimes you just have to go with flow. This might account for some flyers. All loads, with one possible exception (313445, 4.0gr Unique) were safe in my gun, but your mileage may very So approach with caution.

Starting with the worst, The Lee 85gr RN and my gun appeared to hate one another. I used loads with 2.5gr Bullseye, and 2.7gr 231

Lee 85gr Round nose
2.5gr Bullseye: Groups ran 2 1/2" to 3"
2.7gr 231: groups 2" One group 3 1/4" with two obvious flyers

Missouri Bullet Company #6 100gr SWC loaded with AA #5
3.5gr 1 1/2" to 1 3/4"
3.6gr 2" - Consistent
3.8gr 2" to 2 1/4"
4.0gr 1 3/4" to 2 15/16"
NOTE: This bullet is very similar to the RCBS 98gr SWC. Want to try it with 231 Powder

Lyman/Ideal 313445 50/50 Wheelweight/Pure Lead
2.5gr Red Dot: Groups 2 1/4" to 3 1/2" Note, without single flyer, this would have been a 1 1/4" group
4.0gr Unique: 1 3/16" to 2 7/8" Last group had a flyer that opened it up from 1"
Note: This load and even heavier ones were suggested by several well known gun writers, as a hunting load. I experienced very obvious flattened primers. While it extracted easily, I will NOT be using it again. I do need to do more work with this bullet, as the design just intrigues me!

90gr Arsenal SWC
4.5gr Unique: 1 1/4" to 2" very consistent groups
3.0gr Bullseye: 1" to 2" groups. Most 1" to 1 1/2"
Note: I suspect that with more load work, this could be a very good bullet.

Lyman 3118 50-50 Wheelweight/Lead
2.5gr Bullseye: 1" to 1 3/4" with flyer.
2.7gr Unique: 1" to 1 13/16" Both the larger groups would have been 1" without single flyers in each

RCBS 98gr SWC
2.5gr Bullseye: 1" to 1 3/4" Pretty much hovered around 1 1/2"
2.7gr WW231: 7/8" to 1 1/8"with most at an 1" You think I like this load????

[Green Frog]

OD,

Thanks for that good range report. Like you, I think there’s more to do with that ‘445 design. I would suggest that if you have enough COWWs that you try a batch of that bullet cast with straight wheel weights with just 2% tin added. Also, what kind of lube are you using and what diameter are you sizing to?
Have you slugged the barrel and the chamber mouths? I’m a little bummed that you’re getting those flyers with the ‘445 & ‘118 bullets... they’ve been go-to bullets to me for a looong time. You may need to measure your chambers to see whether there is one oddball causing your problem. These two bullets should give more consistent results.

Your Phriendly ‘Phibian

[Oregon_Dan]

Green One,
The lube was Javalina, basically the NRA Alox/Beeswax mix. I should note that WW's are sort of my go to bullet metal, but in this case I am hoping to find something softer in the hopes of getting a bit of expansion.

I have used a set of pin gages to determine that the cylinder throats on both my model 16, and my 631 are .314, which is a snug fit! This is what I am sizing them too. Based on the performance of the RCBS bullet, I think I am in the ballpark.

I have to say that I am not unhappy with the performance of either of these bullets at this point. With the 313445, I now know that in my gun, it definitely does not like the Red Dot load I used. I am thinking that backing off a bit with Unique may help a bunch, for as noted, I was getting pressure indications with the 4.0gr Unique load. Also want to try 231 and/or Bullseye with it! Really wishing I still had a pound or two of HS-5 squirreled away

In the case of the 3118, I had four groups that were opened up by a single flyer, I also had a legitimate 1" group, along with a couple that were 1 1/4" and 1 1/2".

When all is said and done, this is a pretty small statistical sample, but it does give me some direction. I think both these bullets, along with Engineer401 Arsenal SWC show a lot of potential.

The quest continues....

Dan P

[Green Frog]

Two guns with consistent .314 throats on all 12 chambers? That sounds like pure magic! That removes one problem I have with my gaggle of guns, ‘cause some run .313 and some are .314 I can either shoot some with undersized bullets or maintain 2 separate sets of bullets.