@Henry Rifles: Why do you have to be like that? (Maybe you guys can help me)

[TomAM]

There's nothing wrong with your Henry.
It's very easy to find out what part of the bullet is too fat to chamber.

When you ramrod the stuck boolit out of the bore you will see abrasion marks revealing the problem area.
If it has a (approx) .300 diameter bore ride portion north of the (approx) .309 full diameter driving band diameter, there might be a sign of interference there. Otherwise, the leading edge of the full diameter bearing surface will be scraped.

In the latter case, just seat the boolit deeper. A fat bore rider is not so easy to solve.

A tight throat like yours is much more accurate with cast than a sloppy one. Just need to adjust the boolit fit.

[buckshotshoey]

Henry is not to blame because your reloads don't fit. Their rifles are made to fit factory, SAMMI spec ammo. Unless you do a chamber cast of both rifles, you can't say the winchester rifle doesn't have a chamber or throat that is OVER spec. The whole point of reloading is to tune your ammo to a specific rifle.

I'm not sold on the idea of powder coating. I really don't think it gives adequate advantages over normal bullet lube. Just my opinion though. Make up a dummy round using a bullet without powder coating. If it still sticks in the throat, then the ogive is obviously too far forward, or the bullet diameter is too large.

At that point, you have to set the bullet deeper (with a reduced powder charge), run the bullets through a sizing die, or you need a different bullet. The only other solution is have a gunsmith alter the throat to fit your bullet choice. Not the best idea because factory ammo might shoot like crap. Not necessarily, but possible.

Question... what is the bullet diameter after it's dropped from the mould? Then diameter after powder coating? Even if your PC is only .0015 thick, that increases the diameter of the bullet .003.

As a final thought, it's the reloaders job to make his ammo fit and function in the rifle, not vise versa.

This is a current post here on Cast Boolits. As you can see, this isn't a problem exclusive to any specific manufacturer. It is a problem related to ammo component choices....

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...-30-bullet-oal

[freakonaleash]

My 40 65 marlins have a .410 bore but will only take a .408 bullet. Tight chamber necks. On the other hand my 40 65 winchesters have a .410 bore and will chamber a .410 bullet. Should I call Marlin and complain?
You're shootin too large of a diameter bullet man.
Never could get past the looks of these new Henrys myself.

[FergusonTO35]

The Lee 150 tends to have a fat nose, and PC probably made it fatter. I use the RCBS 150 and my three Marlins and two Winnies eat 'em right up. No gunmaker on the planet can produce a gun that will digest every conceivable reload, it's just not possible. Factory ammo is made within a very narrow set of parameters so that it will work in as many different guns as possible. For the caster and reloader, making ammo that works in YOUR particular gun is rewarding but can require alot of experimentation to get everything right. That's just the name of the game.

Send me PM with your address and Id be happy to send you some RCBS slugs to try in the Henry!

[ClintonJ]

My son just received a beautiful, brand new Henry 30-30 Win from his grandpa as a legacy gift. Being the prudent father I am, I thought it would be great if I could keep it well fed by pouring my own using the affordable Lee 150gr mold. I poured a hundred of them or so and powdered them up real nice, loaded them up per my Lyman Cast Bullet manual and tested them out in a Win 94 before grandpa ever showed up... they functioned beautifully with reduced recoil, it was a winner for sure!

Fast forward again to a few weeks go and we go to test out the new rifle. I ran some factory loads through it and, I just have to say, that is a really nice gun! Unfortunately, that's where my praise for Henry comes to an abrupt halt...

After the factory loads, I went to run my 150gr beauty's. Not sure what the difference was, but the first one went off without a hitch. I cycled the action and then ran into my problem... the second cartridge wouldn't load. I worked things backwards and out popped the brass with powder going all over the inside (the bullet was stuck in there really good). After finding the appropriate means to dislodge the bullet, I checked another round, more gently. No go... nor another, or another. Obviously there's something seriously wrong somewhere...

PAUSE AND RECONSIDER MY ACTIONS - DON'T DO ANYTHING STUPID! (Right?)

Monday I called Henry to see if they could help me identify the problem. The first guy I talked with must be the gate keeper... I explained what I was doing, what my problem was and his response was "We don't recommend reloads in our rifles."

Okay, that's fine... most companies will tell you that voids the warranty... I'm not too worried about that. So I try to clarify that I'm just trying to understand why the bullet might not be cycling. He asked if factory loads worked alright and when I told him yes, he simply repeated the line about not recommending reloads...



No matter what I said, that was the response... "We don't recommend reloads in our rifles."

REALLY?!?!?! Maybe I'm way out of line here, but I expected to hear that... and then I expected him to say "but let me tell you a few things you can go investigate or look at or check that might help solve your problem. Nope, no help there! In hindsight, I have a few thoughts...

1. Where can I buy subsonic ammunition these days for a 30-30? I'm waiting... still waiting... okay, for seriously, something that's actually affordable?
2. Two years ago there wasn't any factory ammunition to be had... what am I supposed to do the next time that happens... huh Mr We don't recommend reloads?
3. How about reduced recoil loads for plinking in the back yard? (These actually aren't too bad, I guess... but not my kid want to plink in the backyard cheap!) However nothing priced comparable to what I could make on my own...
4. My other kids might be getting a Marlin from grandpa from now on... unless they are just as bad... (recommendations?)

So... now that I'm done ranting, I just went out and bought the 120gr mold from Lee and made about 100 to try out. Unfortunately my Lyman Cast Bullet book doesn't list these... nor does any of the other 5 books I've got. The biggest item I'm trying to figure out is the C.O.L. for this one. When I try an unprimed piece of brass and get it to chamber, it pushes it back to 2.350" C.O.L. I'm naturally frustrated that none of my books will address this and Lee wants me to spend yet more money on their brand to get their manual... and I've not been impressed by the availability of information from Loadbooks USA manuals I have on specific cartidges, although this one is available for 30-30...

What I'd really love to have is a load that uses 700X (Yes, I read that thread) and didn't learn much... or get my hands on some Trail Boss, which seems to be unobtanium these days. The goal is to keep it slow, as I've not yet splurged on a box of gas checks...

Okay you guys, where do I go from here?

Note - maybe I just answered my question for myself... or at least gotten a lot... Page 180 of the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, 3rd Edition:
https://archive.org/details/LymanCas...p?view=theater
It lists load data for 115gr [7.0-8.9gr of 700X] (which is very tempting to use, just keep things in the sub 8gr load range?)... and for some reason they didn't think you should use it with the 122gr bullet but then is used again for the 150gr [6.5gr - 8.0gr]. Maybe I could go a little higher than 8 and watch carefully for high pressure signs? Meh, that's silly... I can be content with sub 8gr loads.

Is that data for my exact bullet? No... it is stink'n close and do I have to take responsibility for my own actions? Yes. Is it dangerous? Driving a car is dangerous... where do we draw the line?

It's been a while since I've been on and I haven't posted much before this. Hopefully I didn't stir up and old injuries or sore spots... thanks in advance for all the helpful responses!

So a lot of you had good feedback and a lot of you maybe skimmed through my post and asked questions I think I provided the answers to above... but maybe I'm mistaken, so I'll provide an update and try to answer what I can.

I tried to chamber one of the 120gr projectiles that wasn't powder coated... it fit. The PC seems to be the problem on the 120gr and I suspect it's the same way on the 150gr. A lot of pointed his out and were right... when I inspect after failing to chamber, i can see the marks from the rifling on the projectile.
> So now what are my options for lubricating these things? Does the tumble lube stuff work? My recipe tells me I'm pushing it around 1600fps and I'm not using a gas check. Do I need to bite the bullet and buy those or put in an order @ Berry's for some of their 30-30 projectiles? I don't know that I can afford or justify a lubrisizer right now...
@FergusonTO35 - I'd greatly appreciate that offer! I'll PM you with more questions.

I size these things to .308 using a Lee sizer... I checked it with my calipers (I know, i need a micrometer) and it said .3075... when the last half is a 0 or 5, that's pretty close.

One other item to point out (before we talk about Henry): I was able to find some discontinued 100gr Hornady bullets that is called out in my Hornady manual. I am able to reload, chamber, and fire these without any issues (aside from an inability to find any Trail Boss powder or H4895). Those were fun, but have quite a healthy appetite for powder! So no problem with the brass that I can discern.

Regarding Henry Customer Service:
A lot of you seem confused. I wasn't expecting Henry to fix anything and I am not blaming them for this. Yes, factory loads run through it just fine, they did their job and they built a beautiful rifle... it's the nicest rifle in the safe! That said, instead of being rude about it and acting like a broken record (am I aging myself?) that just repeats "We don't recommend reloads for our rifles"... how about acting like a human. Something along the lines of "Sorry man, I know its probably really frustrating, but we have a policy where we can't discuss the use of reloads in our rifles." It's not like I bought a Hi-point (my sincere apologies to Hi-Point if you provide excellent CS) or another "budget friendly" firearm.

Oh, I also contacted Lee. The guy on the line listened and recommended the 120gr mold... so I bought that one and ran into the same PC not fitting problem... and none of my manuals list the C.O.L. for that bullet and I'm sure their manual is on par with sliced bread... but I'm running out of discretionary $'s to spend.

If you think I didn't answer your question, please ask it again...

[popper]

The Lee 150 appears to have a long bore nose section so PC will probably not work in your rifle. Look for a tapered FP mold. You can get BLL or LLA lube to work at low fps. Past 14-1500 fps I'd get a GC version, maybe the 041 mold, has a taper after the drive bands but is 180 gr. I've used a 31-142C PB or D, GC from accurate, fits my Marlin. I PC them.

[Kai]

You guys missed the point. The hand loads performed beautifully in the Winchester 94, but failed miserably in the HENRY.

The point was not missed. The dimensions of the henry rifle are different than your 94. All guns are not the same. What is the difference in the nose profile of your bullet and the factory bullet? That's the catch. I cast the lyman 311041 170gr bullet. I tried to run them in a model 55 winchester and the bolt wouldn't close yet they work just right in 94 and 64 carbines and a 94 rifle.

[dverna]

If you have a safe load well below max, my approach would be to seat the PC bullet deep enough to get reliable feeding.

BLL has had success so it is worth trying. I am not a fan of PC so that would be my first choice. You may need two coats and IIRC .35 Rem was using three coats at velocities over 2000 fps. Simple enough to try.

[The Dar]

Lee wants me to spend yet more money on their brand to get their manual...

Don't waste your money on the Lee manual. I have the second edition and they don't have any data for 30-30 Winchester using cast bullets in either 120 grain or 150 grain. They do have data for 160 grain and 170 grain.

[freakonaleash]

I have never shoot any bullets lighter than 170gr in a 30 30. I'm not sure why you would want to go any lighter.

[Frank V]

I think unfortunately in todays world as soon as you say the word reload. especially in a brand new gun they are going to wash their hands of it right away. I don’t think it’s just henry.

reminds me working in quality at a major automotive supplier. if a part failed in the field or was rejected by our costumer. GM, ford, chrysler etc etc. would go over the part with a fine tooth comb. if anything was out of spec on that part even by .0005 it was automatically our fault. even if it had nothing to do with the part failure and on the opposite side of where the failure occurred. that .0005 chamfer length just made it our problem and fault.


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I think this is it. A lot of manufacture state handloads void warranty.

[FergusonTO35]

Lee Liquid Alox or similar works beautifully in .30-30, even when pushed hard. The key is to dip the shank of each boolit to give a thick film, then let it dry. Tumble lubing would probably work well enough for low velocity pistol powder loads but not for anything at gas check speeds.

[rintinglen]

Tumble lube to your hearts content. I recommend one light coat, size, and then one or two more.

2-3 light coats of LLA will let you run to ~1400 fps with a light, plain base boolit in 30-30. I have loaded many hundreds of 311-241, 125 Grain and 311-245, 95 grain boolits with 8.0 grains of Unique or Herco. My daughter and I used them for chickens and pigs in Cowboy Lever silhouette competition for several years. Ours were sized .310.

[elmacgyver0]

My Henry 45-70 has a tight chamber also and I have to take that into account for my hand loads.
You need to make your handloads for your rifle.
I love my Henry, but I do need to take into account the chamber is tighter than my old trap doors.
Or perhaps it's lead, I seated my boolits a little further back and the action still is a tad hard to close at the very end, but not too hard.
Boy is that thing fun with the suppressor!

[deltaenterprizes]

The Lee 150 tends to have a fat nose, and PC probably made it fatter. I use the RCBS 150 and my three Marlins and two Winnies eat 'em right up. No gunmaker on the planet can produce a gun that will digest every conceivable reload, it's just not possible. Factory ammo is made within a very narrow set of parameters so that it will work in as many different guns as possible. For the caster and reloader, making ammo that works in YOUR particular gun is rewarding but can require alot of experimentation to get everything right. That's just the name of the game.

Send me PM with your address and Id be happy to send you some RCBS slugs to try in the Henry!

I loaded some 30-30 ammo with powder coated RCBS 150gr cast boolits and didn’t think about trying a dummy !
Now I need to make a dummy and try it just to be sure.

[bedbugbilly]

Yes . . . they might have chambered well in the Winchester 94, but Winchester didn't make the Henry - and no two chambers are necessarily treated equal.

PC'd boolits sized to what?

Really bot being critical - just take it as step at a time and you'll figure it out. Try a plain lead boolit as dropped and another that is sized. Load up dummy rounds seated to your COAL but don't crimp them and chamber them. The boolit should tell you a lot - do they need to be seated deeper (did the boolit slide back in the case neck when the bolt was completely closed - did the rifling engrave the nose), is the OD of the boolit too tight for the chamber, etc.

If you are looking at reduced loads for less recoil - why PC them? TL 'em on Alox/paste wax and shoot them with or without a gas check - unless your going over 1200 for or so.

I had a Winchester 94 Ranger and a Marlin 336 SC. I got the WIN first and developed reduced loads for it first. When I got the Marlin 336 SC, the load for the WIN wouldn't chamber easily - as soon as I sized them down from .310 to .309, they chambered fine. I never got a .310 "stuck" in the Marlin, but they just didn't chamber easily like they did in the WIN. The .309 worked just fine in the WIN so I didn't have to roll separate rounds for each rifle.

If you had one of your reloads chamber and fire OK - my guess is that you need to be looking at your PC'd boolit diameter and/or seating depth. If you can get it figured out for the Henry - then try the same loading in your WIN to see how it works and if it does, it will save you from having to roll two different loadings.

I have owned Henrys and currently own 3 - bore in 30-30 though. I think what you got was the wrong guy answering the phone and a "canned lawyer response". If everyone followed that response, their sales would be akin to Bud Lite sales. The Henry centerfires that I've owned or currently never had a factory round through them as all I shoot are my cast boolit reloads - the only exception to that is that I do reload FMJ in 223 for a bolt action.

Henry makes a good rifle - I've never had an issue with any I've owned and if I do, they will make it right. Don;t let this pet a bad taste in your mouth - you'll get it figured out. Good luck!

[hoodat]

As a reloader of custom ammo, it is your responsibility to create ammo that will work with whatever chamber and barrel you are presented with. There are plenty of tools, components, and advice to do that with without bothering the manufacturer of a rifle that works with factory spec ammo.

Some rifles are more of a challenge than others. There-in lies the fun. jd

[WILCO]

My best advice is to stop and reevaluate your endeavors.

[Tom Myers]

> So now what are my options for lubricating these things? Does the tumble lube stuff work? <

NOE Bullet molds sells a sizing kit that uses inserts to size the bullet body and also the bullet nose.

NOE 30 Cal bullet sizing kit

Be sure to slug the bore just in front of the throat to get the bore size (top of the lands) and the bore groove size (bottom of the rifling) and order the body sizing die one thousandths over the bore size and the nose sizing die to just fit or no more than 0.0005" under the bore size.

I use them and they really work slick. When I first saw them, I thought they were a bit spendy but they were well worth the money as an addition to my powder coating setup as my experience was the same as yours. Bullet noses too fat after coating. But now I can make a bullet to exactly fit a fired case and exactly size the bore riding portion to a sliding fit into the lands.

Hope this helps.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I've only had the very best experiences when communicating with Henry CS.

My suggestions:
1. Buy some GCs
2. Don't powder coat
2. Try tumble lube
3. If tumble lubing fails, Investigate alternative ways to apply standard lube [pan lubing, dip lubing, and finger lubing].
4. Is that Lee 150gr a FN ? if not, look at the Lee 170gr FN mold...that's the one I'd use in a levergun.

Good Luck