.38 special wadcutter warning

[thxmrgarand]

The July 2023 issue of Shooting Times, on Page 8, has a featured, reader submitted warning about "heavier" loads in hollow-based bullets. I shoot a lot of both Lyman and Lee wadcutters, especially in a stainless J-frame, but also in other .38 spc and .357 magnums. The submitter provides a target that I don't exactly understand, and he wrote he ruined the barrel in a Dan Wesson revolver. My own wadcutter loads are loaded to be pleasant for myself and for the many local Republican women who seem to prefer small revolvers for everyday carry. The warning may be going right over my head.

[Sam Sackett]

If one uses heavy loads with a hollow based wadcutter, the pressure/force can actually tear off the hollow base when fired. If this part of the bullet gets stuck, as in does not make it out of the barrel, this becomes a barrel obstruction. When the next round is fired, big problems as the next bullet hits the obstruction. Guns blow up.

Just might ruin the day.
Sam Sackett

[wilecoyote]

...This is exactly what happened when I blew up my j-frame_
day ruined. day after, also

[thxmrgarand]

Thank you for the answers. Your answers are much better explanations than what Shooting Times printed. The current batch of 1,000 or so I am going through rapidly is 3 grns of Win 231 pushing the Lyman 4153584958. It does not act at all like a hot load.

[schutzen-jager]

jmho - i know that item was reader submitted, but i completely gave up on Shooting Times as a reliable, accurate, + non biased source of anything firearm related years ago -

[Daver7]

I have some HBWC 38s. I think I'll load them backwards. Seems like that should work. let me know if I'm wrong on this.

[Sam Sackett]

I have some HBWC 38s. I think I'll load them backwards. Seems like that should work. let me know if I'm wrong on this.

That might work for close up work. Get out very far and the cup (new nose) will catch the air and it will start to tumble badly.

Sam Sackett

[schutzen-jager]

I have some HBWC 38s. I think I'll load them backwards. Seems like that should work. let me know if I'm wrong on this.

been recommended by many personal defense experts for more decades that i can recall -

[Outpost75]

Years ago American Rifleman tested backwards wadcutters. Beyond close range 7-10 yards, accuracy was poor and penetration was inadequate. You are better off loading soft swaged HBWCs with standard, full charges, not to exceed 3 grains of Bullseye. With solid base cast wadcutters you can load to +P.

[deltaenterprizes]

The first Hydroshock projectiles were basically hollow based wadcutters with a little post in the middle.

[challenger_i]

Seating the HBWC backwards is an old trick. The OSS used the reverse-seated HBWC over a "light load" as a relatively quiet, close-in round back during the War.

As to the OP's question, and confusion, the key item is Hollow-Base. Mr. Sackett's explanation of the bullet separating, leaving an obstruction in the barrel is quite correct. Stay with the light loads listed in the manuals: no hot-rodding this round!

[1Hawkeye]

You never want to push a hollow base wad cutter more that 750 fps to insure the skirt won't seperate. I guess they don't put that in the loading manuals anymore.

[TD1886]

Shooting times and the shooter never stated exactly what happened to the barrel. I believe another scenario is the part of the wadcutter left in the barrel creates a bulge in the barrel when a round is fired behind it. Think about this, and I know many of you have seen this in revolver, where for some reason a bullet sticks in the barrel and subsequently more rounds get fired behind the first and the revolver doesn't blow up. I can see that with a low pressure cartridge, definitely not a magnum, but come on hollowbase wadcutter loads are anemic. I think the bulge is more likely to happen.

[Carrier]

I put a bulge in my 8” S&W 14 from a copper coated wadcutter that I had loaded a bit hot. Didn’t realize the skirt stayed in the barrel and it now has a bulge about 2” from the muzzle. It was a tack driver not so much now. So be careful as it does and will happen.

[wilecoyote]

if instead of a 6" barrel we talk about a 2" barrel, we don't have a bulge, but a bridged top strap and a blown cylinder, imho.
if someone has different opinions about this, I will be glad to learn.

[StrawHat]

Using the wrong bullet, trying to make it into something it was not intended to do, gee, what could go wrong. Maybe next time he will load 22 Hornet bullets in the 22 High Power and go after tigers. After all, Jim Corbett did it.

Kevin

[dverna]

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/rev...cs-test/#38spl

The above link shows results for both 2" and 4" barrels.

Loading cast bullets for self defense is not a good idea for most people. Why??? Because most people are unable/unwilling to do proper expansion and penetration testing. They convince themselves that shooting a couple of rounds into milk jugs or paper will "tell the tale".

I use the Lucky Gunner site to select commercial bullets for my pistols. LG do a decent job of testing. I then load those bullets to the same velocity they tested at.

A few hundred jacketed bullets will last a very long time if only used for load testing and self defense. And by load testing, I mean running 100-200 to see if they feed reliably and are accurate enough.

Then find a cast bullet and load that shoots to the same POI and plink/practice with that.

In the "dark ages" reverse HBWC's were an attempt to turn the .38 into a better defensive round. Today, there are a number of commercial bullets that will get the job done. When your life is on the line, saving a quarter a bullet is poor decision making. Fortunately, most people will never need to kill anyone so loading some "feel good" load does not matter....until it does.

[Char-Gar]

"Everything old is new again", or so the old song goes. We have know for generations that to much pressure could blow the skirt off a swaged HB wadcutter which become an obstruction in the barrel for the next round to have fun with. Also most of us geezers have tried loading the same bullet backwards and decided it wasn't a thing to do twice.

Not all HBWC are the same in skirt thickness and some will tolerate full charge loads and some will not. However in an attempt to keep idiots from destroying firearms, it is correct to tell them just don't do it. Solid base WCs, can be made to whistle downrange with no danger involved.

There now, that should set things straight for about six minutes.

[wilecoyote]

... no wrong bullet, no wrong gun, here (yes, wrong rookie) nor the intention of making it into a .357max._
untutored fumbling can be more than enough, if it's your first time_
but although I was the absolute beginner, not even R.Corbin could have taught me a more interesting lesson

[contender1]

Back in the 1970's,, when I started handloading,, I too studied the idea of loading a .38 HB wadcutter backwards as a SD round. And I EXPERIMENTED using known data & methods.
I didn't "hot-rod" loads,, and I tried several brands of bullets.
I found that my results were pretty much the same as the written stuff of the day. The softer, Hornady swaged lead HBWC, when loaded backwards, AND to milder velocities makes an impressive short range severely expanding slug. Other brands,,, not so much. I did see skirts come off, and was always mindful of the potential of a barrel obstruction. Never had any mishaps.

Then in the early 1980's I had an incident where I THOUGHT I was shooting a different bullet at a problem dog,, I discovered I'd actually shot it with one of my Hornady HBWC reverse loaded bullets. Distance was about 40-45 yds,, and the dog survived. I was charged with animal cruelty because the owners refused to keep their dog on their property. (I was easily acquitted, due to the written laws etc.) But to me,, the most interesting part was when the Vet that treated the dog stated on the stand; "It was the most devastating bullet wound channel I've ever seen. Only 9" deep, but massive tissue damage."
Now,, I don't know if it was tumbling or not,, but it sure made a serious impression upon my thoughts.

As with many things,, unless you understand the limits,,, or fail to follow safe guidelines,, you can have issues.

PS; I thought I was shooting the dog with Speer shot capsules,, loaded with (3) pieces of #1 buckshot. Also a mild load developed for closer range.