.38 special wadcutter warning

[LeonardC]

The way I read the original story was the skirt separated and stayed in the barrel. "Next" round blew the skirt out and it hit the target. 5 shots and 6 holes. Damage to the gun was during the pressure spike during the blow-out.

Years ago there was a pic. posted of a sectioned Dan Wesson barrel that had 8? jacketed bullets inside it. Yes, a reload was needed.

I read an article "recently" about loading .38 Specials. The author did not include any "heavy" jacketed bullet data and stated that with the mild pressure of .38 Special the heavy jacketed bullets may not exit the barrel. The next shot would be a loud BANG. (EDIT: Brian Pearce, Handloader 341, Dec-Jan 2022)

[TD1886]

The way I read the original story was the skirt separated and stayed in the barrel. "Next" round blew the skirt out and it hit the target. 5 shots and 6 holes. Damage to the gun was during the pressure spike during the blow-out.

Years ago there was a pic. posted of a sectioned Dan Wesson barrel that had 8? jacketed bullets inside it. Yes, a reload was needed.

I read an article "recently" about loading .38 Specials. The author did not include any "heavy" jacketed bullet data and stated that with the mild pressure of .38 Special the heavy jacketed bullets may not exit the barrel. The next shot would be a loud BANG.

That's how I read the article.

[Outpost75]

The problem is most common when .38 wadcutters are fired in .357 revolvers. The skirt is subject to "ballooning" where it is unsupported in transitioning from the shorter .38 case, locking into the .380 diameter of the .357 chamber mouth, the skirt being elongated to the point of ductile failure as the forward portion of the bullet carries forward. Very well documented. I've posted about this several times before.

[Scrounge]

been recommended by many personal defense experts for more decades that i can recall -

Yes, but for close-up work. Loaded those for SWMBO's Charter Arms .38spcl with the 1-7/8" barrel. Good to about 30 feet, worked fine to put down a stray dog once upon a time.

[TD1886]

The problem is most common when .38 wadcutters are fired in .357 revolvers. The skirt is subject to "ballooning" where it is unsupported in transitioning from the shorter .38 case, locking into the .380 diameter of the .357 chamber mouth, the skirt being elongated to the point of ductile failure as the forward portion of the bullet carries forward. Very well documented. I've posted about this several times before.

I believe you meant to say shooting 38 Special hollowbase wadcutter loads in a 357 Magnum cylinder. Shooting the bullets from 357 cases don't do that.

[Outpost75]

i believe you meant to say shooting 38 special hollowbase wadcutter loads in a 357 magnum cylinder. Shooting the bullets from 357 cases don't do that.

correct!

[Jtarm]

Using the wrong bullet, trying to make it into something it was not intended to do, gee, what could go wrong. Maybe next time he will load 22 Hornet bullets in the 22 High Power and go after tigers. After all, Jim Corbett did it.

Kevin

I thought Corbett was a big-bore double man.


A buddy of mine once unknowingly loaded .22 Hornet bullets for his Mini-14.

The gun had been zeroed previously, but at 30 yards, we never did figure out what was happening to those bullets.

He finally gave up on the Mini and got rid of it.

[bedbugbilly]

Not much different than someone overloading a rifled musket with too heavy of a charge and blowing the skirt of a hollow bane Minie Ball. Push a soft lead HBWC too hard and I can see how you could blow the skirt on some designs and if a portion of the skirt remains in the barrel . . . . . This is where "common sense" comes into play and unfortunately, some have more than others . . . .

[Rapier]

For self defense/ home defense trying to reload a revolver with WC bullets is a very bad joke, under stress. Best to practice with SWCs or RN cast, especially with speed loaders, and use factory JSPs or JHPs for carry. No special killer bullets.
No need to scare the snakes by beating the grass, here.

[ACC]

The July 2023 issue of Shooting Times, on Page 8, has a featured, reader submitted warning about "heavier" loads in hollow-based bullets. I shoot a lot of both Lyman and Lee wadcutters, especially in a stainless J-frame, but also in other .38 spc and .357 magnums. The submitter provides a target that I don't exactly understand, and he wrote he ruined the barrel in a Dan Wesson revolver. My own wadcutter loads are loaded to be pleasant for myself and for the many local Republican women who seem to prefer small revolvers for everyday carry. The warning may be going right over my head.

This is nothing new. They were warning us about pushing wad cutters to fast. I remember reading something like that back in 1973.

ACC

[hc18flyer]

[QUOTE=ACC;5596163]This is nothing new. They were warning us about pushing wad cutters to fast. I remember reading something like that back in 1973.

Not long ago I was new to .38 Special and read several times the recommendations for turning a 'Hollow-based wc' around for a self defense load. I had to read further to find the warnings about trying to push them faster, to find the problems. We have new shooters and casters that need complete info, and occasional reminders to avoid making similar mistakes! hc18flyer

[StrawHat]

I thought Corbett was a big-bore double man.


A buddy of mine once unknowingly loaded .22 Hornet bullets for his Mini-14.

The gun had been zeroed previously, but at 30 yards, we never did figure out what was happening to those bullets.

He finally gave up on the Mini and got rid of it.

Thank you for the correction. I guess my memory is failing. Corbett did hunt tigers, rifle unknown to me. I was thinking of a preacher who hunted tiger with the Savage High Power. A bit of research found him to be the Methodist minister Harry Caldwell. And he was doing missionary work in China.

Thanks again for jogging my memory.

Kevin

[beagle]

About 10 years back, I experimented with all of the old Lyman HB wadcutter moulds in both .38/.357 and /.44 Mag.
I was researching the old .38/44 loads. Using a .357 Blackhawk as a test vehicle and a .44 SBH with the .429422 in .44 Special cases.

With both the .38 and .44, as velocity went up, accuracy went down. Suggested loads in old Lyman handbooks gave the best accuracy.

I was realy suprrised at how little pressure was required to open the base on both as I recovered a lot of bullets and no matter the velocity. The cavities opened very uniformly as they were suppose to. I was looking for blown cavities in this procedure but didn't find any.

My advice is keep velocity down with HB bullets. They're made to compensate for improper cylinder/bore fit and not for hot rodding.

Backward seating swaged wadcutters was tried as well on old watermelons. Range was about 15 yards and many were missed at that range so I wasn't impressed with the accuracy.

At that time we also tested a Ruger Hawkeye .256. This was accurate and that little gun would take 1/2 a melon out with one shot and reseed quite an area./beagle

[Frank V]

My wadcutter loads are light. They’re for target, small game & fun.

[45DUDE]

Years ago I wanted to see what would happen with faster speeds using a hbwc and different powders. The ones that came apart the base stayed in the case. 3.2 of Bullseye -700x-and W231 were the limit. 3.8 with Unique did well. 3.2 of American Select would separate. I have two Clark 38 special Colt long slides set up for 3.1 Bullseye with a hbwc. Stay below 800fps. Looking in different books Bullseye powder has the lowest pressure for the same speed. I have a N.M. Colt 38 special that likes 2.5 of Bullseye. My practice loads are with a bnwc.

[GooseGestapo]

I saw a good work up on the reverse 148 HBWC.
Conclusion was that 3.3gr of Bullseye or 3.5gr of #231/HP38 was MAX.
At 3.3gr Bullseye, expansion was assured without blowing off the base. However, a DEWC at 3.5/3.8 gave nearly equal cavitation and nearly 2X penetration.
Made me a believer in the good’ole wadcutter.

[Lance Boyle]

I thought Corbett was a big-bore double man.


A buddy of mine once unknowingly loaded .22 Hornet bullets for his Mini-14.

The gun had been zeroed previously, but at 30 yards, we never did figure out what was happening to those bullets.

He finally gave up on the Mini and got rid of it.

I had some reloads with Hornady SPSX in .223. They’re called super explosive as the jackets were quite thin. I would see a swirl of lead around the bullet hole as the jackets failed or the lead melted in the cup.

[tazman]

I tried out some NOE hollow based wadcutters that I cast from hard lead. They had a little thicker walls on the hollow base than most you would buy. I loaded them backwards and tested for accuracy and expansion.
Accuracy was fine out to 15 yards. Very little difference from loading them normally.
Expansion was poor in that the skirts broke off rather than mushroomed.
I don't remember exactly what I was expecting but I never did that again. Not very impressive.

[Frank V]

I tried out some NOE hollow based wadcutters that I cast from hard lead. They had a little thicker walls on the hollow base than most you would buy. I loaded them backwards and tested for accuracy and expansion.
Accuracy was fine out to 15 yards. Very little difference from loading them normally.
Expansion was poor in that the skirts broke off rather than mushroomed.
I don't remember exactly what I was expecting but I never did that again. Not very impressive.

I think Skeeter Skelton wrote about HB wadcutters seated upside down years ago.

[FergusonTO35]

This is interesting. I gave my S&W 10-5 and Taurus 856 some exercise yesterday, load was 3.4 grains Bullseye under a 158 grain LSWC which I've been shooting for years. Brass was all R-P, some of it had the two circular indentations on the case body as is used for factory wadcutters. Three of the cases (which I had never loaded and fired prior) cracked the case mouth. Normally I can get at least 15 loads out of a case before it does this. Is the wadcutter brass more prone to cracking?