Full Bore or Wad slugs?

[Castloader]

Good morning all, I've been casting for handgun and rifle for years, thinking about opening up my repertoire to shotgun as well. I'm looking at MP molds 2 Hollow-base offerings, a .680 Wad slug and a nearly identical .730 full bore slug. I'll be using these for plinking, and general practice running my Benelli Super 90 M1 with the smoothbore police barrel, shooting targets out to 50yds ideally, maybe some steel.

I have never loaded for shotgun at all before, and managed to score an old Lee Loader on fleabay. I'm not looking to do a ton of experimenting, just looking for a tried and true recipe for success. Couple questions:

1) As the title implies, should I go with a full bore slug or a wad slug? What are the practical implications of one over the other?
2) What other supplies, particularly wadding do I need?
3) What kind of accuracy can I expect shooting from a bench at 50yd? I think 2-3" would be great, but I'm not sure what's practical.

Priorities are in order:
1 Simple and repeatable
2 Low cost
3 Accurate

In case anyone asks, I have Clays, Unique, Titegroup, Lil Gun, and lots of HS-6 to work with.

[MarkP]

Not sure what the MP profile is but a round ball may shoot better out of your smooth bore.

[TD1886]

I've gotten into making and shooting full bore slugs from my Browning rifled shotgun barrel. I made a pound swage to produce basically a Foster style slug. After swaging them I knurl them to hold a little lube. Been fooling around with this for quite some years and have set it aside for a good while. Well I'm visiting it again. I got her down pat now and the accuracy is quite good. I'm using Herco as the propellant.

[longbow]

I cannot speak directly to results from the Lyman cloned slugs from Mihec because I don't have any of the Lyman style "pellet" slugs. There are numerous threadsm on the Lyman 525 gr. sabot slug thoiugh and the Mihec wwad version is an exact copy so that info would apply.

There are also threads about the full bore version so again, a search will get you there. In fact it seems to me there was recent discussion on the full bore sluig so simply scanning thread from the last few months might do it.

What I can say is that most people report mediocre accuracy from smoothbores for the wad slug. Not sure about the full bore slug. One thing to note is that the full bore version weighs over 600 grs. so load data is scarce.

So, for your questions, I'll answer as best I can:

1. The wad slug is an exact copy of the Lyman sabot slug and there is a ton of load data. Not so for the full bore slug.
2. You need to select hulls, wads and powder according to a published, pressure tested recipe. There are many threads on developing loads and accuracy for the wad slug version but most are for rifled guns.
3. I'd say 2" to 3" at 50 yards is very optimistic from smoothbore. From a rifled gun with a good load quite doable from what I read but smoothbore is a whole different thing. Some people claim exceptionally good accuracy from smoothbore all the way to 100 yards but pics of targets are rare in my experience. If the gun likes the load and you have rifle sights or scope on it a smoothbore may shoot reasonably well.

My opinion...

If you want cheap and easy then round ball from smoothboe is hard to beat. My good loads run 3" to 4" at 50 yards if I do my part and are as accurate or better than any hollow base slug I have shot so far.

Here is some reading that may help:

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...11868-Hamicide

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...e-MP-Lyman-525

And simple round ball loads:

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...ine.com,-Reply

I find that for most wads the 0.662" RB is quite undersize though it seems to work for Randy with a felt wad under. I generally use 0.678" RB with a nitro card wad under the ball and a scoop of Cream O Wheat on top then the ball. These are easy to cast, easy to load and give quite acceptable accuracy out to maybe 60 to 70 yards. At 50 yards good loads should run around 4" groups.

A benefit of the round ball is that they run about 1 ox. so any birdshot load can be used with equal shot weight, just trim the wad or space the round ball up.

Longbow

[TD1886]

I cannot speak directly to results from the Lyman cloned slugs from Mihec because I don't have any of the Lyman style "pellet" slugs. There are numerous threadsm on the Lyman 525 gr. sabot slug thoiugh and the Mihec wwad version is an exact copy so that info would apply.

There are also threads about the full bore version so again, a search will get you there. In fact it seems to me there was recent discussion on the full bore sluig so simply scanning thread from the last few months might do it.

What I can say is that most people report mediocre accuracy from smoothbores for the wad slug. Not sure about the full bore slug. One thing to note is that the full bore version weighs over 600 grs. so load data is scarce.

So, for your questions, I'll answer as best I can:

1. The wad slug is an exact copy of the Lyman sabot slug and there is a ton of load data. Not so for the full bore slug.
2. You need to select hulls, wads and powder according to a published, pressure tested recipe. There are many threads on developing loads and accuracy for the wad slug version but most are for rifled guns.
3. I'd say 2" to 3" at 50 yards is very optimistic from smoothbore. From a rifled gun with a good load quite doable from what I read but smoothbore is a whole different thing. Some people claim exceptionally good accuracy from smoothbore all the way to 100 yards but pics of targets are rare in my experience. If the gun likes the load and you have rifle sights or scope on it a smoothbore may shoot reasonably well.

My opinion...

If you want cheap and easy then round ball from smoothboe is hard to beat. My good loads run 3" to 4" at 50 yards if I do my part and are as accurate or better than any hollow base slug I have shot so far.

Here is some reading that may help:

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...11868-Hamicide

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...e-MP-Lyman-525

And simple round ball loads:

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...ine.com,-Reply

I find that for most wads the 0.662" RB is quite undersize though it seems to work for Randy with a felt wad under. I generally use 0.678" RB with a nitro card wad under the ball and a scoop of Cream O Wheat on top then the ball. These are easy to cast, easy to load and give quite acceptable accuracy out to maybe 60 to 70 yards. At 50 yards good loads should run around 4" groups.

A benefit of the round ball is that they run about 1 ox. so any birdshot load can be used with equal shot weight, just trim the wad or space the round ball up.

Longbow

Longbow once I had that Lyman 20 gauge pellet slug. From a rifled heavy barrel H&R single shot with a scope the best I done was 3/4 inches at 100 yards. Like a dummy I sold it.

[longbow]

From everything I've read the Lyman slugs (and clones) shoot very well from rifled barrels if the wad/slug fit is good and of course with a load the gun likes. Reviews from smoothbore shooters are mixed.

One former member here turbo1889 said that the 12 ga. Lyman sabot slug became unstable at transonic velocity to would start to tumble somewhere after about 50 yards if it started out supersonic. He said the 20 ga. slug was worse. But again both shoot well from rifled barrels.

I was in the group buy for the Mihec clone but dropped out because money was short and I have smoothbore guns. If I had a rifled gun I likely would have found the money and bought the Mihec mould... Mihec moulds are wonderful moulds!

Longbow

[Hogtamer]

I’ve got the Mihec Lyman 12 ga clone and it’s an excellent mold. Several years ago I was able to get repeatable 3” groups from a rifled barrel. No go out of smoothbore though. The old lee 7/8 oz slug mold is fun plinking and pretty accurate from smoothbore at 50 yds. The big overbore round balls the Longbow likes are indeed the most accurate but my old bones don’t care for that much recoil anymore.

[Mr Peabody]

I've had numerous slug molds. Lyman's sabot mold is easy to cast with and not nearly as heavy as a 2 cavity brass mold. Clay busters sells a wad made for Lyman's slug that fits right. Unique works good. I shoot it with Improved Cylinder choke and can get 4 to 6 inch groups at 50 yards. I think maybe I could do better with better sights. How big is the steel your going to shoot?

[W.R.Buchanan]

The Lyman Slug doesn't work like a Foster style slug. I has to be spun in order to yield some accuracy. A Foster Style slug like a Lee slug will work better in a Smoothbore Barrel simply because it is flying like a Shuttle Cock and is Weight forward.

Fit is everything with smoothbore barrels and the Slug and Wad need to have some resistance when being pushed thru the barrel.

There is an alternative however. That is a Rifled Choke Tube. And if you gun has a threaded barrel to use interchangeable chokes you are in business. My M500 threaded barrel has produced some really nice groups with both Lyman and Lee Slugs.

My Loads are nothing but my Standard Trap load in Win AA hulls, 18-20 gr of Green Dot using the Claybuster Blue Slug Wads. This is not a "Hot" load or even a "Warm" load. It is a light load that will yield @1150-1200 fps which is more than enough for any Plinking or 3 Gun Shooting, or light to medium game hunting you'd do below 50 yards.. My 3 gun load uses Lee Slugs and are the cheapest Slug loads you can produce. My Lyman Slug loads are the same and I use the MP mould as well.

The first pic below is is the Lyman Slugs and the second is Lee slugs. Both shot thru my M500 with Carlson's Rifled Choke Tube at 25 yards. The Lyman target has 3 shots thru the same hole and the Lee Target has 4 thru the same hole and then I made a windage correction that resulted in the last shot splitting the vertical line on the target.

If your Super 90 has a threaded barrel you are in business,,, the Carlson's Choke Tubes are @$60.

Randy

[Agent1187]

As has been mentioned, fit is king! The major downside is that 12 ga barrels have SAAMI specs allowing for 0.020" of span in acceptable barrel diameters.

I personally have fairly tight barrels, and using Lee wad slugs was a nightmare with the currently available clone wads. Especially when I wanted anything faster than trap loads.

I had good experiences right off the bat with the fullbore slug, but I certainly wouldn't want to use them as plinkers.

So for plinking purposes, I would definitely focus on a wad slug first. Just don't be surprised if you need to try half a dozen wads before finding one that works right for you!

[TD1886]

Here are some pics of the foster style slugs that I swage:

[W.R.Buchanan]

On the wads it pays to coat them with Mica. BPI has it. You just put a teaspoon of the powder in a plastic bag with your wads and shake them up. It coats them and they don't transfer plastic to the bore as much or at all.

BPI also sells the Claybuster Blue Slug wads which work really well with both the Lee Slugs and Lyman style 525 Slug. MP Moulds has a better mold for those.

Randy

[jsizemore]

My Benelli Super 90 M1 runs .728" on the cylinder bore choke. .730 ball shots fine through it. Much over that and things get funky. I actually run the balls I cast through a rotary tumbler to ensure they are 730 or a little under.

[firefly1957]

My results with several 12 gauge smooth bore shotguns with cylinder to full chokes and the Lee 1 oz. cast in the wad slug have all been about the same . I shoot the guns offhand at 25 yards front bead only and get pretty reliable 3 inch groups . I have used lee data from 1200- near 1700 f/s with same results .

[FullTang]

Pros and cons of the various options:

The Lee 7/8 oz Drive Key slug is the best value---cheap mold, uses little lead, no need to coat, lube, or size. It also has very little recoil (for a slug!) and can be loaded very quickly; you can use any 7/8 oz load data safely, and there are now many published loads courtesy of BPI. Not especially accurate out of any of my guns, but lots of fun for plinking and tactical training. Most folks find the 1 oz less accurate.

Any slug mold with a center pin for a hollow base will be a little slower to cast, so keep that in mind. Round balls are very quick to cast. The Lee .690 RB is a cheap alternative, but wad selection is critical for success. I've had great success with the CB 3118-12AR in all my rifled guns. Genuine WT12 wad is next in line for accuracy for me.

Lyman .735 RB has given me the best and most consistent rifled barrel accuracy, but it is heavy and uses a lot of lead. You need to coat it (I use Lee Liquid Alox) and you need to make a "stack" out of gas seals and cards/fillers (need lots of components). No real published data, either.

Lyman 525 slugs have worked very well for me out of smooth or rifled bores; again, they're heavy, slow to cast, use a lot of lead, and the molds are expensive. You can order them from Gardner's Cache for a very reasonable price if you'd like to try some first. Lots of published loads, which is nice. I found a Svarog Russian slug mold set with multiple core pins on eBay for cheap, so I can cast lighter versions of the diabolo-style slug, which gives me lots of flexibility and accuracy. The regular price on these is quite high, though, especially since the war.

[FullTang]

I'd also add that it makes a lot of sense to borrow a mold from a friend, if you know anyone who casts---I borrow the .735 RB mold from a shooting buddy who uses it very little, and that's the typical case---most molds get left in a drawer for years on end. Alternatively, consider buying a few RBs or slugs if you can to try before you buy. Starting out with a custom mold makes the least sense to me, but then I'm a cheapskate