30-30 vs 300Blackout

[stubshaft]

I have hunted with a 30/30 for over 50 years. I have also hunted with a 300 Whisper back in the 80's. I sold the Whisper and still have 5 30/30's!

[Winger Ed.]

A 30-30 is looked down upon often as not having much power and good only for short range but it's far superior to a 300Blackout.

Why? Apart from compatibility with an AR platform or subsonic loads with a suppressor I see no redeeming qualities in a 300Blackout.

Like different kinds and styles of cars & trucks: They each have their own different niche.

If the game was all about down range power--- we'd all be tinkering around with little changes to something like a .300Wby.
Or how much 'better' a .500 Nitro Express, than a .50BMG.

[charlie b]

If all you have is an AR the BO is a logical step for hunting larger game. The interesting question is why the BO became so much more popular than the Grendel.

[farmbif]

I still cant understand why the 300 hamr isn't as popular or more than the blackout. it utilizes the full length of the 223 cartridge just expanded out to 30 cal. and the twist rate is slow which makes it an ideal candidate for cast

[Grayone]

So looking at ballistics and down range energy I'm confused.

A 30-30 is looked down upon often as not having much power and good only for short range but it's far superior to a 300Blackout.

Why? Apart from compatibility with an AR platform or subsonic loads with a suppressor I see no redeeming qualities in a 300Blackout.

I'd like to hear what is better about the 300Blackout because I sure don't see it.

Why worry? I have and use both. Isn't America still great in some regards!

[Hannibal]

Why worry? I have and use both. Isn't America still great in some regards!

It's not a worry, I just don't understand why the enthusiasm exists. Seems like there's no good justification for it so I thought perhaps I was overlooking something, but perhaps not.

[Ajohns]

Some people like new, some like old, and like me, some like both. I've used all the Winchester and Remington based 1890's - 1900's rounds (except the 25's) for deer and they all worked totally as intended.
I built a 300 BO for my young son as his first deer rifle (Remington bolt) and at 150 yds he's shot his deer with the 2400 fps 110 gr vmax and all have never moved from that. Total juice of the lungs, and or heart. And as mentioned above, it uses so little powder to do so.
Some people like economics this day n age

[GhostHawk]

I have one of each, I don't have an AR. I have H&R handi rifles in .30-30 and the BO.

For my money the Dirty Thirty is the better caliber for handloaders.

You have to love that long neck. I have shot bullets from little 90 grain rabbit killers to 185 gr gas checked big game killers.
The .30-30 has the case room, the capability to do it all.

The .300 BO really only comes into its own with an AR and a silencer. I have neither, and no desire to have either.
The only real point in favor of it is the ability to make brass from .223.

The wonderful thing about this hobby of ours is that we have choice. We can do as we please. It is up to us which cartridges we choose to pick and load for.
There is NO wrong answer. If it rings your bell, that's fine.

Personally I'd put my time into the old Dirty Thirty. It has a proven track record. It has a couple of features that make it a natural for cast bullets. The case capacity, the long neck, the availability of brass, the flexibility of payload. Simply make it a classic hunting round. Just my 2 cents worth and no insult implied or intended for anyone.

[eastbank]

my two 300 bk,s are bolt action remington aac md 7,s with a 16" barrel,s and shoot 125 gr nosler bt,s at 2400 fps with lit-gun and 150gr nosler bt,s at 2200 fps with the same powder, these bullets carry more energy and drop less than 30-30 round nose bullets . make it a very light carry rifle for young shooter and women. i have killed deer with no problems at reasonable wood ranges.

[popper]

I have 3 BO and one 30/30. Each to it's purpose. BO is a good hog rnd and can work for yotes. 30 Hamr is better for light bullets. BO 145gr cast @ 2k fps is good, 170 cast is slower in 30/30. Both work for me.

[Hannibal]

You guys getting 2K fps+ with 150 grain bullets got any published load data?

Hard to do based on the PUBLISHED load data I've got.

Maybe easier in a bolt action for which information is difficult to find. Even then you're looking at 1400 Lbs of energy at the muzzle. That's marginal for medium size game, let alone 100yds out.

Not saying it can't be done, but you'd better be spot-on with shot placement. And spare me the 'you can kill a deer with a.22LR' argument. That's ridiculous. Just because you can doesn't mean it's wise.

Meanwhile a 30-30 will reach 2K FSP with 150 grain bullets very easily. 2300FPS isn't a hard stretch yet 2K in the Blackout is pushing the limits if you're honest about it.

[Hannibal]

my two 300 bk,s are bolt action remington aac md 7,s with a 16" barrel,s and shoot 125 gr nosler bt,s at 2400 fps with lit-gun and 150gr nosler bt,s at 2200 fps with the same powder, these bullets carry more energy and drop less than 30-30 round nose bullets . make it a very light carry rifle for young shooter and women. i have killed deer with no problems at reasonable wood ranges.

Any published reloading data you can share? It appears those are overpressure loads according to my research.

You're running a fairly fast powder for an AR in a bolt gun to achieve those velocities. Likely not a good combination.

[quilbilly]

A few years back, I had an interest in a 300BO bolt gun to punch paper then happened upon a screaming deal on a patrol style 16" barrel bolt gun in 308 with a similar twist to the 300BO. It wasn't a hard choice after a little thought. It is easy to make a 308 shoot like a BO but a lot harder to make a BO shoot like a 308.

[BadgerShooter]

Shooters World Socom powder will push a 150 grain bullet at 2100 from a 16" barrel. It is a warm load but within published data. A 150 spitzer at 2100 is right in there for performance especially with a pointy bullet. That is out of my AAC single shot measured with both a Labradar and Ohler chrongraphs.

[P Flados]

my two 300 bk,s are bolt action remington aac md 7,s with a 16" barrel,s and shoot 125 gr nosler bt,s at 2400 fps with lit-gun and 150gr nosler bt,s at 2200 fps with the same powder, these bullets carry more energy and drop less than 30-30 round nose bullets . make it a very light carry rifle for young shooter and women. i have killed deer with no problems at reasonable wood ranges.

I ran Quickload and the predictions indicate that the above velocities seem to require loads close to 65,000 psi (with any powder). I have seen a few loads in published data that come about 50 fps short of the above, but I do not have 100% confidence in all published load data. Lil gun and Socom are actually near optimum for the BO, and they both seem to be a little "non-standard" and able to squeeze out surprisingly good velocities for a given pressure at times. I have never used either and do not plan to try them.

Bolt actions frequently have a substantial capability margin over SAAMI limits. The model 7 is sold in 22-250 which indicates a 65,000 psi capability in a round based on a 308 case. In a 223 sized case, hoop stress and breech thrust will be less. Pushing any 223 based round too hard will probably start stretching primer pockets long before any damage is done to these guns.

I am not sure any SRP primer is "rated" for 65,000 psi, but the thick cup primers made for the AR-15 platform would be a good choice for someone pushing limits.

Making ammo that is "safe" for select guns while being "potentially unsafe" for many guns carries is a risk. This is typically just a sport or hobby and we should watch out when there is any potential for creating an "unsafe" condition.

I strongly recommend anyone pushing 300 BO this hard, be very diligent with keeping all such rounds in packaging clearly indicating that the ammo should not be used in an AR-15 or any other platform other than a bolt action or stout break open.

[1006]

https://reloadingdata.speer.com/down...ackout_150.pdf

https://reloadingdata.speer.com/down...out_GD_150.pdf

17.2 LilGun, Fed Small Rifle primer, and a 150grain Boat Tail (BC=.349) gave me 2005fps in an AR with a 16inch barrel. I have not tried Speer’s full power load.

The 300BLK is very efficient, cheap, and uses Small Rifle primers, all good for reloading. A typical AR will Carry 30 rounds.

I do not have a favorite, but would choose the 30/30 for deer and the 300BLK for target shooting, and home defense.

[D.Bullets]

You guys getting 2K fps+ with 150 grain bullets got any published load data?

Hard to do based on the PUBLISHED load data I've got.

Maybe easier in a bolt action for which information is difficult to find. Even then you're looking at 1400 Lbs of energy at the muzzle. That's marginal for medium size game, let alone 100yds out.

Not saying it can't be done, but you'd better be spot-on with shot placement. And spare me the 'you can kill a deer with a.22LR' argument. That's ridiculous. Just because you can doesn't mean it's wise.

Meanwhile a 30-30 will reach 2K FSP with 150 grain bullets very easily. 2300FPS isn't a hard stretch yet 2K in the Blackout is pushing the limits if you're honest about it.

They are going over the reloading books. Could still be within saami speck. Yes thats getting HOT.
300aac BO MAP 55,000 psi ---Maximum Standardized Pressure:50764 psi
30-30 Win MAP 42,000 psi --Maximum Standardized Pressure: 46412 psi
https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads...2021-06-02.pdf

[D.Bullets]

https://reloadingdata.speer.com/down...ackout_150.pdf

https://reloadingdata.speer.com/down...out_GD_150.pdf

17.2 LilGun, Fed Small Rifle primer, and a 150grain Boat Tail (BC=.349) gave me 2005fps in an AR with a 16inch barrel. I have not tried Speer’s full power load.

The 300BLK is very efficient, cheap, and uses Small Rifle primers, all good for reloading. A typical AR Carrie’s 30 rounds.

I do not have a favorite, but would choose the 30/30 for deer and the 300BLK for target shooting, and home defense.

nice

[Milky Duck]

like many comparisons...give the old gal a fast twist barrel and new sleak projectiles and there is nothing in it

these fancypants fast twist .223s are only replicating the 22hp Savage all be it with SLIGHTLY skinnier bore
the 30/30 is a doddle to load for..as is the 7.62x39mm and cant see 300bo being any different...that long neck gives advantage and in a break open gun so does the rim. and in break open gun,pointy sleak projectiles are fair game....you CAN do that in lever if limit it to one up spout and one in tube too,but nobody suggests that LOL.

[dverna]

I was going to drop it but....

I see little sense in the .300 BO in a Model 7. Download a .308 and you have more performance than "pushing" the .300 past its maximum. Plus, the .308 uses standard cases that are cheap and plentiful.

If/when you need/want more than a child's rifle, the .308 can fill the need.

But heck we are all wired differently. If I need a low powered .30 cal load I am not buying a new caliber for what would be a limited role. 13 gr of Promo in the .308 would be my plinking load, but I do not plink with the .30 cals.

For me, the .300 BO poses another issue. It cannot be used with my "core" powders. I can load 28 ga, 20ga, 12 ga, 9mm, .38, .357, .40, .45 ACP, .223, .30/30 and .308 with HP38, Unique, Promo, or Varget (soon to be switched to 4064). Now, after selling off many of my guns, I do not load 28 and 20 ga so I could even drop Unique.