Soliciting experiences/opinions pre-war 32 acp pistols

[shooting on a shoestring]

Colt 1903 Pocket Hammerless, Savage 1907, Mauser 1914, FN 1922…

It’s a genre. Getting curious about them as a fun way to get some use out of my stock of 32 acp brass. Not interested in carrying one. I’ve got better, safer options with firing pin blocks.

But I’m interested in good, fun plinkers and shooters. Not into collecting. Not up to buying one of each and exploring their differences or strengths.

So…what do y’all know about them? Are any of them “better” or are there any that have inherent “problems”? Trigger pulls?

[Thumbcocker]

Love the Colt pocket model. This one dates from the mid 1920's and likes boolits. Tiny sights and old eyes are a challenge. Pretty good trigger.

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[rmcc]

Savage 1907!! One of, if not the first, double stack magazines. 10 shots. Best pointing small frame pistol you will ever pick up!!

[Thumbcocker]

I applaud the OP for his mindset. When faced with a surplus of a particular component the only logical choice is to get a gun to utilize it. Well done!

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[Recycled bullet]

Love the Colt pocket model. This one dates from the mid 1920's and likes boolits. Tiny sights and old eyes are a challenge. Pretty good trigger.

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Wow that is a really cool looking gun!

[El Bibliotecario]

I have a M1903 Colt and a M1907 Savage. Both are better made than todays equivalent small auto pistols. The latter is over-engineered for the cartridge. Both have abysmal sights, which beyond spitting range give odds favoring the tin can. If all I wanted was a means of using the brass, I'd get a revolver chambered for .32S&W.

[Rusty Goose]

+1 on the 1907 Savage. Remarkable little gun, 10 shot, striker fired, cocking indicator, loaded chamber indicator. All the stuff new gun manufactures say is innovation.

I have not owned a Colt '03, but I'm working on it.

[Bigslug]

Of the genre, the Walther PP series probably has some of the best sights, though a pretty horrendously heavy DA first shot.

I've come to prefer the .32 to the .380 in these smaller blowback guns, since that's the round virtually all of them were designed for. The .380's are definitely snappier - sometimes unpleasantly so - much like we saw in the 1990's when the .40 Swindle and Whitewash was shoehorned into guns designed for the 9x19.

The FN 1910/22 would be a good one to pick up as a shooter, since it was intended to be a "full size" police service arm with a larger grip and longer sight radius. Much the same could be said of the PP versus the PPK - a lot of post WWII French-built licensed copies by Manurhin came into the country - they may come in at a lower price than those that came out of Germany, but other than the markings, you'd never know the difference.

The Colt 1903 is simply a wonderful thing.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

So...we're just chatting here about pre-WW II .32s, right? I like such conversations, because sometimes I learn a little and other times a lot! My input is not more than opinion. I never owned a .32 ACP until a couple of years ago. I owned a Beretta M-1934 in .380 ACP for years, knew that the M-1935 in .32 also existed but never got one. Many years later I got a Beretta M84F .380 because it holds double the rounds, but that much post-WW II.

Seems as though all of the reading I absorbed years ago, and "knowledgeable experts" I talked with believed that the .32 ACP was just too small, and that a .380 was the minimum self-defense round, and that was only on a bad day when a .45 wasn't to be found. However, it can't be denied that the .32 ACP was found adequate for military and police purposes in Europe for many years, and virtually all of that ammo was FMJ-type ammo. So now we are faced with great improvements in bullet design and loads, and if it worked o.k. back then, one would think that it might be better now. Us Americans mostly believe that "bigger is better", be it trucks, hamburgers, or cartridges. We like those big cartridges that punch a big hole straight on through, but it would seem that the smaller bullets sometimes have a harder time finding their way out and like to be deflected by bones, etc., and wander around the body a bit before coming out, if they do find their way out at all.

My pistol collecting, heavy on Spanish-made guns, inevitably led me to acquire a couple of Ruby-type pistols in .32 ACP. Also, a couple of Llama .32s. The Rubies are heavy for their size. No--maybe better to say heavy for what they shoot. The Llamas are about right for what they are. So far they're all reliable, but I can't say that I'd ever pick one for size or power over a .38 Special snub. And then again, I'd be unlikely to ever chose the .38 snub over a .45 ACP. I guess I'm hopelessly stuck in the '60s.....


Llamas, top left .32, lower right .380 Two Ruby-type .32s

DG

[Outpost75]

Over the years I have owned dozens of .32 autos. The Remington 51 and Savage 1907 are the most interesting, but mags and parts very difficult to find. The Cz27, Cz50 and Cz70 are sturdy and reliable, but spare parts and original mags can be hard to find. Have not had good results with Triple-K. About 50% work, another 20% can be tinkered with if you are patient.

For simplicity, reliability and ease of finding mags and spare parts, the Colt 1903 and Beretta 1935 get the prize. I collect the Berettas as they shoot well and are the most common and affordable of the WW2 "bringbacks".



If you want a modern high cap .32 Auto the Beretta 81 is near bulletproof. Just the thing if your garden is being overrun with Bunny Wabbits From Hell!

[Texas by God]

I had an FN 1922 7.65 that was a squirrel killing machine.
I’ve owned a few .32s ranging from FEG to Beretta to Walther PP and they all were accurate and reliable.
I’ve only had a couple of .380s and haven’t been impressed so far.


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[wilecoyote]

Of the genre, the Walther PP series probably has some of the best sights, though a pretty horrendously heavy DA first shot...

I inherited a 70's unfired PP, which horrendous DA would have been an understatement for.
I recently tried an old wartime PPK where butter smooth DA would have been an understatement, scary accurate, nor jammed like other more recent ones, always with commercial .32 ammo.
I've always wondered if the best depends on inner self-polishing due to continued playing with the trigger when unloaded since the war or on different machining compared to other more recent ones_

One of the drawbacks of PPK is that you forget you're wearing them when you carry them . already with PP or Beretta35 it is no longer the same, despite modest differences in weight and dimensions_

[shooting on a shoestring]

Wow!
That was a fast 11 responses. Thanks!

So far my take on it is Colt 1903 is the most svelte, best looking.
FN 1910/1922 for precise boolit placement.
PP or PPk has real sights and old ones might have good trigger.
Beretta 1935 is on the radar now.

I’ve got a Beretta Tomcat 3032 with the wide slide. Gun feels good, I like the tip up barrel, but I can’t hit with it.
I’ve got the little Keltec that has a locked breech/tilting barrel design which I prefer, but again can’t hit with it.
I’ve got the 30 Super Carry Shield EZ which I can hit with very well, but I want a cool old 32 acp….that I can shoot well.

Surprised there’s no love for the Mauser 1914 or 1934. Maybe I should strike that one off the list?

[shooting on a shoestring]

Outpost75, as always, I appreciate your donation.
Your suggestion on Berettas and CZs has my attention.

Are those guns on par for groups about like you’d expect from an average old M&P/Model 10 Smith? Or is that expecting too much from them?

[shooting on a shoestring]

Der G,
So why Spanish guns?
What about them makes you smile?

[nicholst55]

Of the genre, the Walther PP series probably has some of the best sights, though a pretty horrendously heavy DA first shot.

I've come to prefer the .32 to the .380 in these smaller blowback guns, since that's the round virtually all of them were designed for. The .380's are definitely snappier - sometimes unpleasantly so - much like we saw in the 1990's when the .40 Swindle and Whitewash was shoehorned into guns designed for the 9x19.

The FN 1910/22 would be a good one to pick up as a shooter, since it was intended to be a "full size" police service arm with a larger grip and longer sight radius. Much the same could be said of the PP versus the PPK - a lot of post WWII French-built licensed copies by Manurhin came into the country - they may come in at a lower price than those that came out of Germany, but other than the markings, you'd never know the difference.

The Colt 1903 is simply a wonderful thing.

My understanding is that the French seized the machinery to produce pistols from Walther as a part of war reparations. They equipped their national police with the PP in .32 Auto. Whatever; I've got one that was carried a lot and shot little. The DA trigger pull is simply atrocious. I'll wager that it's a good 20 creepy pounds! Single action is not too bad, maybe 5 pounds. It shoots well for what it is, although American SAAMI-spec .32 Auto ammo does not impress me. Some of the European ammo is significantly hotter, if you can locate any.

[Outpost75]

Outpost75, as always, I appreciate your donation.
Your suggestion on Berettas and CZs has my attention.

Are those guns on par for groups about like you’d expect from an average old M&P/Model 10 Smith? Or is that expecting too much from them?

Great question . With WW2 era ball ammo from WRA or Rem-UMC the Berettas will put an 8-round magazine dump at 25 yards into about 4 inches. Refined handloads will shave an inch off of that. WW2 acceptance for these was A 10cm group at 20 metres with service loads. A Colt or CZ with with a bit of tweaking of the handload will do about 3 inches. The Cz likewise. For modern ammo you want the Euro-CIP 73-74-grain stuff from FN, Fiocchi, Geco, Hirtenberg, Norma, RWS, S-B. Avoid the JHPs unless you load your own 90-grain .309" XTP seating bullets out to 0.95" minimum OAL with 2.5 of Unique or 3 grains AutoComp.

Accurate 31-081H is my design for the .32 ACP with 2 grains of TiteGroup. Max for Keltec and Beretta Tomcat.
[ATTACHMENT=CONFIG]315391[/ATTACH]

In steel frame WW2 guns and the Colt M1903 Accurate 31-090B matches the Buffalo Bore profile, but with a longer .26 crimp to meplat head length to prevent rimlock. At minimum 0.95" OAL 2 grains of TiteGroup gives 900 fps from the Beretta M1935 with 3.4" barrel.

[Thumbcocker]

Any idea what distance the Colt 1903, Cz 70, and Beretta 81's are sighted for? I find they hit very high at 25 yards.

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[shooting on a shoestring]

I just had a re-read of the Ed Harris article posted in the sticky above “Experiences with a 32” and here’s a couple of quotes:

“ My experience with a dozen or so pocket guns over the years confirms that the most accurate pocket pistols are the Walther PP (not the PPK), FN M1922, Mauser HSc, Beretta M70, Colt Pocket and CZ27. The best pocket guns reliably shoot into about 2” at 50 feet. Any pocket pistol which does should be considered a “keeper.””

And:
“ The various Berettas M1934/35, M70, the VZ/CZ27, Mauser M1910 and HSc, the Browning M1910 and M1922 also "made the cut" in terms of reliability, but in Harry’s eyes were only substitutes, being “acceptable, but not first choice,” compared to the Colt.”

Lines up pretty well with what Outpost75 is saying.

My only knock on the Colt is that it has more collector value and hence costs more.
The FN1910/1922 might fit me pretty good.
The Brettas and CZ’s are still on the list. I’ve never seen them in person.

And I’m thinking about my 32 mould inventory. I’ve got a TC 71 grain for my little 32 acp’s a RF 103 grain for my SWL’s and my 117 external wadcutter for my 30 Super Carry and heavy 32 revolvers. That 31-090B could fit nicely in that line up. Hmmmmm…..

[Texas by God]

When I was a kid, one of my friend’s dad let us shoot a WHOLE BOX of .32 ammo from his CZ27! That is a neat pistol too.
We got pretty good with it but my ears rang for a day or two.


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