good beginner muzzle loader

[Daver7]

My brother in-law wants to start shooting "muskets" with his grandson a 16 year old.
I think of a musket as a smooth bore, but I don't know for sure.
I'd like to steer them towards a rifled barrel.
I think they would have a blast (pun intended) building from a kit. They are both good with working with their hands.
My question is what would be a good kit and or if they don't want to build a kit a good pre built that won't break the bank?

[scattershot]

Well, for my money, a good used Thompson Center Hawken or Renegade percussion rifle would fill the bill quite nicely. Very well made, and can be had for right around $300.00 or so. There are junkers on the market, too, but in the end all you have is an unreliable piece of junk.

[LAGS]

For Starter Kits.
I would have to recommend the Traditions Kits.
They do have a good selection for you to decide what Style you might want to shoot.
They are priced well for what you get and do Function Well .
But If you know Muzzleloaders , picking up a used Thompson Center and refurbishing it is a good start.
I do build other kits , but dollar wise.
They are well worth it , but a big investment if you are just getting into muzzleloaders.

[charlie b]

'Musket' did usually refer to smooth bores and then 'rifles' were rifled barrels. I have seen rifles referred to as muskets, but, never tried to figure out why.

Just a second to look it up....
Wiki:
By the mid-16th century, this type of musket gradually disappeared as the use of heavy armour declined, but musket continued as the generic term for smoothbore long guns until the mid-19th century.[2] In turn, this style of musket was retired in the 19th century when rifled muskets (simply called rifles in modern terminology) using the Minié ball (invented by Claude-Étienne Minié in 1849) became common.[3] The development of breech-loading firearms using self-contained cartridges (introduced by Casimir Lefaucheux in 1835) and the first reliable repeating rifles produced by Winchester Repeating Arms Company in 1860 also led to their demise.[4] By the time that repeating rifles became common, they were known as simply "rifles", ending the era of the musket.

FWIW, I'd go with a Traditions kit as well unless they want a flintlock. Some flintlock folks have little good to say about the cheap locks.

BUT....given the cost of the kits it might make better sense to just buy a finished version.

[LAGS]

I agree that a New finished Traditions rifle doesn't cost that much more than a Traditions Kit.
The reason I opt for going with the Kits is.
You are going to put time and efforts into the Kit.
It helps you learn how things Fit and Work.
I have to agree about the Traditions Flint Lock Rifles.
The Locks do Work.
But you better be knowledgeable about flinters to make them work reliably and stay adjusted.
Building a Kit for your first front stuffer also allows you to add personal things to show others that it is Your Rifle.

[charlie b]

I agree.

[Gtrubicon]

I have an investarms bridger hawken, it’s the least fussy muzzleloader I own. It shoot’s fantastic, for a beginner I think it would be great. All you have to do is remember the fundamentals. Powder, patch and ball. Fire and repeat.then when done, clean.

[Harter66]

I have 2 CVA "Made in Spain" 45 cal rifles , a similar 50 cal Hawkins very nice kit rifle someone way more skilled than me built with a Siler lock , 2 TC Hawkins 50s , and a Traditions Frontier carbine. They are spread across probably 20 yr of manufacture dates and I've had all of them 15+ yr , take this at face value .

TC built a fine rifle with very nice very adjustable double set triggers and with good basic skills , circa 1990 for about $35 difference you had just as nice a kit gun as a complete gun . There's one of each and I actually prefer the kit gun .

Of the 4 Spanish Carolina/Mountain styled rifles and the Frontier Hawkins styled carbine ........well I prefer the Hawkins style mostly because that's what I've shot the most of and the stocks are the most familiar.

They are uniformly reliable even when they sit loaded long term . All are traditional cap locks with twists best suited to PRB the Frontier carbine does shoot a Minie'fairly well but none of them shoot the maxi worth a hoot .

If you're thinking something for sabots these ain't them .

[armoredman]

I agree on the Renegade, simply because mine is a Renegade, my very first muzzle loading rifle, and it simply works, and it looks NICE. Of course, it was a rebuild by the wonderful LAGS, too.

[GregLaROCHE]

'Musket' did usually refer to smooth bores and then 'rifles' were rifled barrels. I have seen rifles referred to as muskets, but, never tried to figure out why.

Just a second to look it up....
Wiki:
By the mid-16th century, this type of musket gradually disappeared as the use of heavy armour declined, but musket continued as the generic term for smoothbore long guns until the mid-19th century.[2] In turn, this style of musket was retired in the 19th century when rifled muskets (simply called rifles in modern terminology) using the Minié ball (invented by Claude-Étienne Minié in 1849) became common.[3] The development of breech-loading firearms using self-contained cartridges (introduced by Casimir Lefaucheux in 1835) and the first reliable repeating rifles produced by Winchester Repeating Arms Company in 1860 also led to their demise.[4] By the time that repeating rifles became common, they were known as simply "rifles", ending the era of the musket.

FWIW, I'd go with a Traditions kit as well unless they want a flintlock. Some flintlock folks have little good to say about the cheap locks.

BUT....given the cost of the kits it might make better sense to just buy a finished version.

There’s a Hollywood movie where they stuck flintlocks on rolling block guns to make them look like muskets to fit the time period. Imagine that. I don’t think they functioned. They were just props.

[armoredman]

Holllywood had never been known for historical accuracy - look at The Good, Bad and the Ugly, with cartridge belts with cap and ball revolvers.

[Rockingkj]

If build from a kit is what they want to do, Traditions kit. However a kit will be more pricy than a good used ML. I’m a Thompson Center fan and used rifles are readily available. For less $ CVA, Traditions, Investaarms ect are out there. Biggest issue with used is making sure the rifle had been correctly cared for. A bore light is a must. My 1st ML was a Thompson Grey Hawk, stainless which turned out to have a bore like a rusty sewer pipe, not a positive experience. So helping a new person learn to evaluate a gun is the best help you can give them. Taking new folks to the range and letting them experience your ML will let them gauge their interest before they take to plunge. Letting them experience ML cleaning is equally important, some folks don’t have the desire to go to that needed work after each shooting session.

[Brimstone]

Best beginner muzzleloader I have seen is the CVA Bobcat.
I don't think they make them anymore. Best $80 I have ever spent in this hobby.

[Somebody]

If the teenager in question happens to be left handed, I passed on a LH .54 Renegade percussion with set triggers this very day. They were asking only $150 and I could give you the shop’s contact info if it suits you.

[charlie b]

FWIW, I have a LH Lyman GPH and I shoot it right handed. I would not want to shoot a LH flintlock as there is much more powder debris that would get in your face.

The only thing you really have to consider with LH/RH percussion guns is if the stock is carved with a cheekpiece or is 'cast' off the wrong direction.

[dondiego]

I am left handed and my dad bought me a Hopkins and Allen Underhammer rifle to start with. It was a good choice and I have many of them to this day! Underhammers work for lefties although I have shot many right handed percussions and flinters. I wear good glasses! The main thing that helped me when I was 15 years old was the counter guy saying that my dad probably shouldn't buy it for me because you have to clean it EVERY time that you shoot it! I was willing to prove him wrong and I believe that he knew that. I still have that little .45 H&A rifle.

[carbine]

There are rifle Muskets from the CW era. One affordable repro is the 1863 Remington "Zouave". We shoot muskets quite accurately in N-SSA.org