RED Hawk 44 Mag

[44MAG#1]

Always, always, always, always let the target be the Arbiter on ones development and testing.
Not just one target but a confirmation with several because luck does happen.
Then stand up and shoot after the Arbiter has passed his final judgement.

[TurnipEaterDown]

The comment by Larry interests me on several aspects, as I have seen the same about fit of bullet to throat on my own 44.

I have one 44 SBH revolver, but with two Ruger cylinders that fit (used to have 3 factory gun cylinders that all fit, result of leftovers from converted revolvers, but sold one).

The 2 cylinders I have remaining measure the same for the 5 "good" throats with the same set of pin gauges, and the "bad" (or larger) throats on each cylinder are close with one being just slightly larger. Original SBH cylinder: 5 @ 0.431", 1 @ 0.432"+, 2 nd position Left of "S". Spare Bisley cyl: 5 @ 0.431", 1 @ 0.432"+ (Slightly looser than SBH), 3rd position Right of "S".

With the SBH cylinder installed in the gun I had groups w/ 0.430" bullets about 60% of the spread of 0.431" bullets (12 shots or 2 full cylinders for group @ 50 yd).
With the Bisley cylinder installed in the gun, it shoots groups w/ 0.430" bullets very slightly smaller and likely statistically about the same spread as 0.431" bullets (12 shots or 2 full cylinders for group @ 50 yd).
The groups with the Bisley cylinder installed are overall larger than with the SBH cylinder installed on the gun, with either bullet size.

The bullet used for evaluation didn't challenge shooter fatigue: 200 gr ~ 950 fps.

Obviously there are other things that affect accuracy other than bullet fit to throat, bore & grove diameter, muzzle perpendicularity, indexing of the cylinder throat centerline to bore/forcing cone C-L, etc.
But my small test on my own gun controlled all of this outside of cylinder.

I have to think that the individual chamber diameter probably matters (I don't have tools to measure mine), and I suspect that the taper from chamber to throat and the condition of that likely matters as well (as some have pointed out, this taper is really a sizing die for bullets bigger than throat).
I also strongly believe that indexing of the centerlines (chamber/throat to Bore/forcing cone) matters a lot, and I really don't have any tooling that would even hint at that. Part of the control of that is pawl to pawl receiving groove on cylinder fit, and positional machining of that groove or pocket on the cylinder.

One thing I did find in my own loading set up:
If using bullets larger that 0.430" I can get drag and damage on the front band of cast bullets from the roll crimp feature in my seating die.
This may be mucking up bullet for band overall diameter and uniformity of form ("circularity"?).
So, when using larger bullets for assessing group size results, it is probably useful to check for this.

So, there are other things at play here that may trump raw fit of bullet OD to throat ID.


On the offset of centerlines from cylinder/throat to bore/forcing cone: When using jacketed bullets where we rarely hear of fit fit fit, it may actually be desirable w/ jacketed bullets to have a somewhat loose fit of bullet to throat. This would tend to lessen the tendency of the bullet being overconstrained when passing through the cylinder gap and having body OD trying to be controlled by both barrel and cylinder.
No one comments on gas cutting of jacketed bullets, as there is no exposed lead.
I do know from recovering lots of 44 bullets, and even finding some 300 Noslers w/ cupped bases after firing, that sufficient pressure exists to obturate a jacketed pistol bullet in this pressure range of cartridge. Shouldn't be a surprise, as I made noses of many 44 cal 300 Noslers take on the shape of the seating dies when loading over heavily compressed W296, and it wasn't just the exposed lead that was reformed.

[marshall623]

I have a update , look what was in the mailbox today . I'll have to get it ready and cast some this weekend .

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[murf205]

Marshall, I looked long and hard at that mold and you might just have the best all around 44 boolit mold. Please give us some pics when you pour these boolits. I just shot my SRH yesterday with .431 Lyman 429421's ahead of 16.7 gr of 2400 and it performed boringly accurate. It is also a .432 gun with a .4295 groove diameter. I had some .430 of the same load and it shot the same with 'nary a trace of lead. 30 rounds w/conventional lube, no lead on the patch either when I got home. These big guns love cast.

[marshall623]

I got around to pouring some this evening , just a little bit to figure what it likes but once we got there , this is one sweet mold . I picked up a couple different diameters but I believe it was pot temp fluctuations.

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[murf205]

Keep us posted on how that Ruger likes this boolit. Good looking mold and boolit.

[marshall623]

Well made it to the range this afternoon , these are the first cast to go down the barrel of this gun . These were at 25yd with my wrist supported . I run 34 rds through it all with AA#9 16.5 gr - 18.0 gr . The barrel just had some Grey haze , no visible leading . 17.5 grs the group was opening up . The first shots at 16.5gr , I had to get the sights adjusted. I didn't realize that the wind wa s gently swinging my target like a pendulum till 1/2 way through the 17 gr group . Im guessing thats where the vertical stringing came from .

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[contender1]

You might try a different way of shooting. The "just my wrist supported" isn't the best way to shoot.
If from a bench, placing the gun in a cradle of the shooting bag, with the frame cradled,, (not the barrel,) and placing your hands on a firm, yet padded rest, under the gun, can allow it to recoil more naturally, and will likely tighten up your groups.