Changing alloy for lower or higher Tin, Alloy

[huntinlever]

My first thought is, a 425gr boolit leaving the barrel at 1650+ fps is overkill TIMES TWO for whitetail deer.

Looks like I lost the post. I agree. Didn't try the 5744 before, pretty heavily influenced by an old-timer, and prefer heavier for caliber. The 4198 tightened up best around 1700 fps, and I stuck with it. I may go back to that 425 (narrower meplat v. this 405, but still plenty wide, and I just liked the bullet), but I know 1650 is way more than necessary for this 405 grain bullet (or any wide meplat cast bullet. 400+ grains). No luck with 5744, though I was hoping for good results around 30 grains, and the 4198 as my experience before didn't start looking good until 39.5 - ironic, because this is the same accuracy load as the 425 I had.

[dverna]

IMO you are overthinking things. I could calculate the increase in bullet weight by changing alloy but will not do it. It is a waste of time for something that has no effect on the performance of the bullet.

If I wanted to cast a hunting bullet, the most important factor is alloy and how it performs with the bullet profile I have and at the velocity I will be using it. I cannot help you there. I learned long ago that with my hunting caliber (.30) the journey is not worth the effort.

Jon's post is interesting. His 94-3-3 alloy makes sense. I have read of good hunting bullet performance with 20:1. With so much "good news" about 20:1 that is where I would start. The cost of tin gets some folks worked up, it but seems so insignificant when talking about a handful of hunting bullets a year.

Again, try to ignore a 10-15 gr difference in bullet weight. It just doesn't matter when talking about 400 gr bullets.

[huntinlever]

IMO you are overthinking things. I could calculate the increase in bullet weight by changing alloy but will not do it. It is a waste of time for something that has no effect on the performance of the bullet.

If I wanted to cast a hunting bullet, the most important factor is alloy and how it performs with the bullet profile I have and at the velocity I will be using it. I cannot help you there. I learned long ago that with my hunting caliber (.30) the journey is not worth the effort.

Jon's post is interesting. His 94-3-3 alloy makes sense. I have read of good hunting bullet performance with 20:1. With so much "good news" about 20:1 that is where I would start. The cost of tin gets some folks worked up, it but seems so insignificant when talking about a handful of hunting bullets a year.

Again, try to ignore a 10-15 gr difference in bullet weight. It just doesn't matter when talking about 400 gr bullets.

Thanks - I definitely overthink just about everything. To clarify:

try to ignore a 10-15 gr difference in bullet weight. It just doesn't matter when talking about 400 gr bullets.

-do you mean, a 10-15 gr variance between bullets doesn't matter on bullets averaging 400 grains, or if I consistently cast, but they end up, say, 385-390 grains on average, well - dead is dead, whether it is a 385 grain piece of lead, or 410 piece?

It all goes to me for the poorer groupings (and incidentally, chrony data) I'm getting now, v. 39.7 grI 4198/425 grain, 46-425Q from Tom I was getting back starting 2014. Everything else doesn't matter to me too much - just want to know where I'm pointing can be reasonably close to POI.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

IMO you are overthinking things.
<<<SNIP

This is soooo true (for me as well).

Paul,
I've given you my opinions, and we all know what they say about opinions, LOL. Keep on searching for the best accuracy load for the boolit you want to use, and it'll kill a deer.

[dverna]

Thanks - I definitely overthink just about everything. To clarify:



-do you mean, a 10-15 gr variance between bullets doesn't matter on bullets averaging 400 grains, or if I consistently cast, but they end up, say, 385-390 grains on average, well - dead is dead, whether it is a 385 grain piece of lead, or 410 piece?

It all goes to me for the poorer groupings (and incidentally, chrony data) I'm getting now, v. 39.7 grI 4198/425 grain, 46-425Q from Tom I was getting back starting 2014. Everything else doesn't matter to me too much - just want to know where I'm pointing can be reasonably close to POI.

I was not talking about bullet to bullet weight variations. My point is bullet weight differences caused by alloy differences are not important. You want the "right" alloy for the bullet and velocity you are using. If the "right" alloy gives you a 415 gr bullet out of a mold that should drop 425 gr it does not matter. The difference in drop and wind drift will not be discernable.

How the bullet performs on game is what matters. I would even trade some accuracy and/or velocity to get the right alloy to work.

[Green Frog]

For big bullets like that 405-425 grainer (probably for a 45-70?) my preferred alloy is 25 parts Pb to 1 part Sn with no antimony, but since you already have antimony in your mix, my strategy would be to use some tin or 50/50 bar solder to adjust, keeping the % of tin at least at 3%. Remember, the more lead you add, the smaller (in diameter) the bullet will probably get, even as weight increases.

Froggie

[Bigslug]

94/3/3 has the advantage of being essentially the classic wheelweight +2% tin mix of 12 BHN, which can be successfully applied to darn near everything. If you cast a bunch of bullets, air cool them and they shoot, you're done. If not, warm the remainder up in the oven, dump them in a bucket of ice water and try again with the BHN booted up into (I'm guessing) the low 20's. Either way, the only thing the deer will perceive is that it's been hit end-on by a flying telephone pole.

If it helps to "keep it real", an 8-10" circle is a reasonable kill zone for deer; 6" is usually acceptable for the perfectionists. A 2-MOA load will then deliver 200% more accuracy than the perfectionists need at the 150 yards the bullets from your Guide Gun will be falling out of the sky like cartoon anvils.

[huntinlever]

94/3/3 has the advantage of being essentially the classic wheelweight +2% tin mix of 12 BHN, which can be successfully applied to darn near everything. If you cast a bunch of bullets, air cool them and they shoot, you're done. If not, warm the remainder up in the oven, dump them in a bucket of ice water and try again with the BHN booted up into (I'm guessing) the low 20's. Either way, the only thing the deer will perceive is that it's been hit end-on by a flying telephone pole.

If it helps to "keep it real", an 8-10" circle is a reasonable kill zone for deer; 6" is usually acceptable for the perfectionists. A 2-MOA load will then deliver 200% more accuracy than the perfectionists need at the 150 yards the bullets from your Guide Gun will be falling out of the sky like cartoon anvils.

OK, great (and poetic!) as usual. I'll pick up some No. 2 to make up some 3-3-94 and go from there. Thanks a bunch.

[JRoos]

Hi JonB, hope you guys are well. Im new in casting bullets but new to get more info on lead hardness. I have purchased a block of lead which I do t know the harness off. What can happen if I cast bullets with too soft lead on .308 . I want to quench with cast and powdercoat afterwards. Does this increase the strength enough of the bullet? Will a soft lead powder coated bullet be safe too shoot in 308?

Thank you

[dondiego]

Hi JonB, hope you guys are well. Im new in casting bullets but new to get more info on lead hardness. I have purchased a block of lead which I do t know the harness off. What can happen if I cast bullets with too soft lead on .308 . I want to quench with cast and powdercoat afterwards. Does this increase the strength enough of the bullet? Will a soft lead powder coated bullet be safe too shoot in 308?

Thank you

You can shoot a dead soft powder coated lead bullet in a .308 Winchester rifle but you will need to keep your velocity down to 1000 FPS or so. It's all relative to your needs. Don't expect to attain 2600 fps with that bullet for more than a few shots. Good luck and welcome to this forum!

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Hi JonB, hope you guys are well. Im new in casting bullets but new to get more info on lead hardness. I have purchased a block of lead which I do t know the harness off. What can happen if I cast bullets with too soft lead on .308 . I want to quench with cast and powdercoat afterwards. Does this increase the strength enough of the bullet? Will a soft lead powder coated bullet be safe too shoot in 308?

Thank you

JRoos,
I'm glad dondiego replied to you and gave you a good answer, because I can't. I don't powder coat boolits and I don't shoot soft lead in CF Rifles.

If you are gonna quench boolits, you need to read this.
http://www.lasc.us/HeatTreat.htm

[fredj338]

I think most are wasting $$ using more than 1% tin. I can get good fill out using just range scrap. For HP I use 20-1 or 25-1 for expansion & to get decent noses. For solids, I just think more than 1% is probably not needed.