Started using my rotary tumbler, finally!

[msp2640]

As most who get deep into this hobby, I'm a bit of a "gear hound". I bought a Frankford Arsenal Rotary Tumbler when it was on a special deal somewhere, atleast 4-5 years ago, probably longer. It is basically what the large Platinum Series is now, just before it was anointed "Platinum". The promo was so good, that I forgot what it was, maybe a sale price, free shipping, free pins or a combination of them. Regardless, it sat new in the box, since I received it. I have read here and elsewhere for what works for good results and took a few notes, along the way. I finally opened the box 2 weeks ago and started playing with it. I had already made a Walmart visit and scored some Dawn and Lemishine. I started with a pile of 8-900 rds of 10mm brass, which was mostly 1x fired and fairly clean and the cleaning results were better than expected. I learned to reduce the dish soap a bit, based on the residual suds and the end. I then did a run of close to 1K of 9mm, which was 1x and fairly clean. Again, the resulting brass was super clean and cleaning recipe was right on. I realized after that batch, that the magnet to pick up the pins, was probably a good investment and ordered one. This weekend, I did a big batch of 38 and 357, all went well as expected, but they are yet to be sorted thru. I then started grabbing all sorts of used brass from the shelves, to make a decent size batch. Some had previously been cleaned in my old Lyman vibratory with corn cob media. This included about 300 444 Marlin, 100 38-55, some 7MM, some 375 Win and finally, some severely corroded 30-40 Krag, which had been pulled down. Brass came out super clean again and was shocked to see even the Krag brass shining. Lesson learned though on mixing brass, as about 20 or so 444 cases tried to swallow 38-55 cases and a few Krag cases - these all pulled apart easily and all the cases were clean inside and out, so I'm not entirely certain it was from the rotary tumbler or occurred while spinning them in the RCBS media separator. The corn cob leftovers from primer pockets of sized and unsized brass, made for a bit of a mess and I was happy to have the magnet to lift the pins from the cob bits when all of that was drying out. I think going forward, that I'll try to resize rifle brass prior to cleaning, to get the primer pockets. Higher quantity, range pistol cases will get run thru the cleaner first. After separating the pins from the cases, they were dumped on a towel and rolled around a bit to help dry them and then allowed to air dry in my basement (which is very dry). I don't believe that I'll need another machine to help dry them. This was the only size machine available when they first came out and it is oversized for the amount of shooting that I do, but it does great work and I'm happy to have it. Hope my first few tries, helps another newbie with info. Thanks, Bill in MA

[nuclearcricket]

One big rule of thumb I learned the hard way, NEVER EVER mix brass. 38/357 will be ok as will 44 spc/mag. but other than that its best to avoid mixing. Small batches will work well in the tumbler but its nice to be able to do a large volume if need be.
Sam

[slim1836]

The more water in the drum = less suds.

Slim

[Finster101]

I de-prime brass with a universal decapper and the resize the nice clean shiny brass when I load it.

[lightman]

A few things that I have done. I switched from using Dawn to using ArmorAll wash and wax. I think the Dawn gets the brass maybe a little cleaner but the cases come out so clean that they tarnish after a little while. The wash and wax leaves a protective coating on the brass. My Wife also made me a pillow case like bag from an old towel that I use. I'll put the freshly tumbled brass in it right out of the tumbler and give it a shake, rock and roll to get the bulk of the water out of the cases.

[tew3006]

Nice write up. I bought one about a year ago and haven't used it yet. This just might be the thing that finally makes me try it out.

[Rockindaddy]

The rotary Franklin tumblers with the stainless pins, citric acid (teaspoon level) and two drops of Dawn. Fill 3/4 full of brass and water. Deprime the cases and tumble for an hour. Dump into a Lyman colander to remove the stainless pins over a five gallon bucket. Sometimes the brass has to be dumped several times to remove all the stainless pins. I do it outside so the stainless pins don't go down the drain. A neodymium bar magnet wrapped in a rag aids in recovering all the stainless pins. Dry the brass in an oven or spread on an old black or brown towel and leave outside in the sun. The pins that I purchased are 400 grade stainless pins and are magnetic. If perchance one gets 300 grade stainless pins; they are not magnetic and are more difficult to recover. I quit using my two vibrator brass cleaners. The rotary stainless pin tumblers work so much better!

[SoonerEd]

During the summer I dry my brass on a towel on the hood of my truck. Dries the brass quickly without water spots.

[msp2640]

Thanks for the added info - I have done alot of what was added after I posted this, rolling the brass on a towel, universal decap die, etc. I have enough very clean brass to last me the next year or so! I have a nearly full 5 gal bucket of LE range, 1x fired, 223 commercial brass - once I finally get thru resizing all of it, that will be next to take a bath. Haven't cleaned anything smaller that the 7mm brass so far. Thanks again, Bill

[ulav8r]

Thanks for the added info - I have done alot of what was added after I posted this, rolling the brass on a towel, universal decap die, etc. I have enough very clean brass to last me the next year or so! I have a nearly full 5 gal bucket of LE range, 1x fired, 223 commercial brass - once I finally get thru resizing all of it, that will be next to take a bath. Haven't cleaned anything smaller that the 7mm brass so far. Thanks again, Bill

Decap, tumble, then resize. Will reduce the amount of grime that gets into your sizing die.

[MakeMineA10mm]

Welcome to wet tumbling!

I’ve dumped the pins. Got tired of them getting stuck in flash-holes or “bridging” across the case mouth. They are an added, unnecessary step. I just wet tumble in water, soap and lemi-shine, and the only difference is the cases are “normal shiny” instead of “mirror-bright shiny.”

My process:
1. Run all brass thru Universal de-priming die.
2. Fill drum 3/4+ full (never over 95% full) of HOT water and brass.
3. Add 3-4 drops/dribbles of Dawn.
4. Add a 9mm case full of Lemi-Shine.
5. Tumble (no pins) for 35-45 minutes.
6. Dump in Colander.
7. Rinse in cold water (to kill suds) thoroughly with some agitation until suds are gone.
8. Dump on an old bath towel and “swoosh” the cases around to knock off most of the water.
9. With brass still in it, Lay towel out in front of high powered fan.
10. After 10 minutes, swoosh cases around again to re-oriented and put in front of fan another 15 minutes.

This results in clean brass with a dull shine, in-between what brand new military cases and bright shiny commercial ammo looks like (which is just for marketing).

After loading this brass, the ammo is run in the vibratory tumbler for 10 minutes to get the case lube off. I put liquid car wax in the tumbling media, which combined with any residual lube, preserves the shine and brass. However, don’t over-do this! The brass should feel dry after it comes out. The wax/lube is “hiding” in the pores of the brass.

[megasupermagnum]

I've done all 4 main methods of case cleaning, by hand, dry tumble, wet tumble, and ultrasonic. They all have their pros and cons.

One con of the wet tumbler is you need to get that primer out first. It won't clean the primer pocket if you don't, and worse yet, the case will always be wet until you remove it. I suppose there is a chance if you let them dry for a couple months they might be ok, but primers left in will still be wet a couple of days later. This is the same for ultrasonic cleaners. I think it is a habit picked up from dry tumbling, where leaving the primers in is a good idea since it won't clean them anyway, and sizing a case afterwards guarantee's you won't have media in the flash hole.

No matter what you do, mixed cases will always turn into a headache. This is one pro of an ultrasonic since they can be so much faster in smaller batches. Ultimately you just have to bite the bullet and do one caliber at a time. It feels slow, but it's faster than trying to dump smaller cases out of the bigger cases one by one.

I often resize my cases before cleaning if I'm using my own brass, but if I'm working with range brass, or some that fell in the mud or something, one trick you can do is soak, then slosh them in a bucket of hot water and dish soap. That will get them plenty clean to run through sizing dies. Another trick I've been trying is using lemon juice when wet tumbling. I've yet to get even acceptable results without steel media, but I'm hoping to get the tumble time down to about an hour as some claim. I tried Lemishine, and it doesn't seem to do much of anything in my opinion. I suspect it may have gone the same way as Pinesol, and been watered down so much as to be nothing but cheap floor perfume now. I've been adding a couple of spoonful's of lemon juice, and that seems to make a noticeable difference. Hopefully in a few weeks I'll have enough 308 brass emptied to be worth it to prep them. I still have my doubts wet tumbling with no media will ever produce satisfactory results unless you are using a really harsh chemical. In the past I've played with vinegar in the ultrasonic cleaner, and that really does a phenomenal job, however, it comes with the downside that if you don't do things JUST RIGHT, your cases turn the most ugly splotchy brown.

One last tip, I like to separate my media with water. I'm not sure if it is possible to fill your separator up with water, mine is homemade, so I fill it until the brass is in the water. This rinses any cleaner off, plus seems to help the steel pins from flying if you turn the cage too fast. I should take a picture, my cage I bought from Salvation Army of all places, and best I can tell it was used for some kind of deep fryer. If you use any kind of citrus its probably a good idea to slosh and soak your cases in a water and baking soda mixture. It doesn't seem to be as big a deal with lemishine, but with lemon juice, I would do it. Nothing dangerous happens if you don't, but they can turn funny colors. I don't worry about the suds of Dawn myself. I've tried reducing Dawn, and got horrible results. If you don't have any suds, you get left with the nastiest slimy cases coated in soot and sizing lube. I use a generous amount of Dawn, there's no downsides to it.

[megasupermagnum]

Here is the cage I use for separating tumbler media. I hope someone can identify it because it's better than any of the plastic things on the market. I got it at Salvation Army for $3.

[jetinteriorguy]

Here is the cage I use for separating tumbler media. I hope someone can identify it because it's better than any of the plastic things on the market. I got it at Salvation Army for $3.

That sort of looks like the cage they use for tumbling the ping pong balls for bingo, or possibly for raffles.

[Dancing Bear]

Decap, tumble, then resize. Will reduce the amount of grime that gets into your sizing die.

That's how I always did my brass, even when vib cleaning ( now I wet tumble). Didn't think sizing "dirty" brass was a good idea.

[ddeck22]

I like the lack of dust.

I have the "Lite" version so it is a little bit smaller. It only stinks when I have big batches to do. Other than that, it works the same.

[uscra112]

I've never had pins stuck in flash holes. What am I doing wrong?

[stubshaft]

Me too, and I regularly tumble 6mm PPC brass with a smaller flash hole.

[uscra112]

And a sharp bottleneck. I found that it's easy to empty pins out of a case like that by shaking it, mouth down, underwater.

Any event, I sure don't miss poking bits of corncob out of flash holes.

NB: I just replaced my antediluvian rock tumbler with the junior-sized Frankfort Arsenal. I don't shoot vast quantities of pistol ammo, just obsolete rifle stuff, so a batch of fifty is a big one for me.

[rjallen]

I use a wet rotary tumbler- the large Frankfort with pins, dawn & Lemishine. There is no one right way to do this. Play around with the process until you are happy with the results.
My exact method is due to the fact most of my rounds are pistol, I will pick up "stranger cases" on the range. When I get back home from the range, I first throw all the days ammo cases into a small Hornady ultrasonic cleaner. I use a bit of the Hornady case cleaner. The cases go in WITH the spent primers. Process for 5-10 minutes max. Dry on a towel or paper towels. Take the semi cleaned cases to my reloader room. After the cases are 90% or more dry, I spray the cases with Hornady Case Cleaner Dry Lube. I then load a Lee Case Feeder attached to a Lee APP press. I use the appropriate case sizing / decapping die and quickly run the cases through the APP. Because I used the ultrasonic cleaner, the case processing press and feeder stay cleaner as does the sizing die.
I do this to make "room" on my Hornady LNL press so I can use a RCBS powder checker and a bullet feeder- the first stage is used for a case expander and then primed. I have found it difficult to use the "PTX" option with the Hornady powder die. I do not like how Hornady PTX insert expands the pistol cases I cannot consistent case expansion and I find I must adjust the PTX powder measure every time I change calibers. This means rounds & rounds of adjustment of powder weight and case expansion. It is far simpler to use a separate expansion die for each caliber.
I then use the Frankfort tumbler segregating cases by size and use ss pins with the above detergents. Dry the cleaned brass on towels [in good warm weather] or use a food dehydrator for a few minutes. I use a two stage Frankfort case separation system designed to fit over a 5 galleon bucket. The first part of the separation system holds the brass, the second section retains the pins. I drag a Frankfort Magnetic Case Tool over & through the brass which removes the last small percentage of pins Pins are dried before returning to storage or used again immediately for additional brass.
This system works well for me, but again there is no ONE right way to do this chore. I actually have "fun" returning the brass to pristine condition.