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Thread: Flintlock mythbusters

  1. #41
    Boolit Master

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    JFTR - The cartridges with the extended flash tubes were the OKH Oneil, Keith and Hopkins line of wildcats.
    If God didn't want man to eat animals, he wouldn't have made them out of MEAT!

    The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on my list.

  2. #42
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by waksupi View Post
    I'd like to see that one. I know of no way to totally waterproof a flintlock. I know you can seal open edges with a grease or wax, and it will help somewhat. It is water that migrates in the barrel channel to the bolster area that is generally the problem. I carry mine with a scrap of wool blanket over the lock area, and have no ignition problems in rain or snow.
    Welcome aboard!
    I think you could do it with a little extra work on the lock. One could hone the top surface of the pan and the bottom surface of the frizzen very flat and then rub both surfaces with beeswax so it makes a seal when closed. The problem with this is that a wet frizzen face will cause a misfire every time, I think. With that given, better to just cover the whole lock area. I use an oiled piece of leather I made that ties to the trigger guard.

  3. #43
    Boolit Master
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    Rainproof Pan is a better description and does prevent an ingress of water for a while.If hunting dangerous game clean out and reprime the pan at every oportunity.I usualy tip the pan away from the toutch hole after priming, the flame should skip over the top of the powder for quick ignition.

  4. #44
    Great Thread! Lots of great stuff in the Black powder mag. A great book to have is: Flintlocks- A practical Guide for their use and appreciation by Eric Bye

  5. #45
    Boolit Bub
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    Great thread with links to lots of information on locks and what a "properly tuned" lock should do. Thanks to those who spent considerable time in gathering the goods.

  6. #46
    Boolit Master
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    so I am slow getting here and the link don't work for me. is there a updated link that will take me where the action is?
    WHEN ALL IS SAID AND DONE...MORE WILL BE SAID THEN DONE

  7. #47
    Moderator Emeritus / Trusted loob groove dealer


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    http://www.blackpowdermag.com/catego...s/experiments/

    Check the catagories section, I think you can get there.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
    John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


  8. #48
    Boolit Master
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    thanx bubba ... that one worked. I have it saved now.
    WHEN ALL IS SAID AND DONE...MORE WILL BE SAID THEN DONE

  9. #49
    Boolit Mold Colonels's Avatar
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    Just had a KY Longrifle built for me. My first blackpowder gun. My uncle is a NMLRA member and a member of the Kentucky Corps of Longriflemen, and has been building for 40 years. It's a .46 caliber with a Siler lock, curly maple stock, a swamped Rice barrel, and hand-forged iron mounts. We sight it in next Saturday.

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  10. #50
    Boolit Master


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    Now THAT is a very nice looking rifle.
    When you say ",46 cal.", what size is the bore?

    Russ
    When it comes to Muzzle Loaders, Black Powder Matters.

  11. #51
    Boolit Master kens's Avatar
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    Very nice,
    I didn't realize there were any more gunsmiths like that still around.
    Beautiful workmanship

  12. #52
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    Very nicely done!
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
    John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


  13. #53
    Boolit Mold Colonels's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RBak View Post
    Now THAT is a very nice looking rifle.
    When you say ",46 cal.", what size is the bore?

    Russ
    46/100ths of an inch. I will have to hand cast all of the roundballs at .457"

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by kens View Post
    Very nice,
    I didn't realize there were any more gunsmiths like that still around.
    Beautiful workmanship
    There are pockets of skilled longrifle builders still around...primarily in Kentucky, Pennsylvania, Virginia, and Tennessee. My uncle got interested about 40 years ago after putting together a flintlock pistol kit (Traditions). Kits like those are certainly functional, but in the interest of more historical accuracy, he got into building rifles from the basics as they used to be. Groups like the National Muzzle Loading Rifle Association, the Kentucky Corps of Longriflemen, and the Contemporary Longrifle Association do manage to keep makers in touch with one another.

    There are also some people and websites out there who sell higher quality kits, such as Track Of The Wolf, and then folks like Jim Chambers (the owner of the Siler Lock Company) have sites that sell "kits" that are basically all of the basic raw materials of a longrifle, and then leave the maker to do all the work once those materials are in-hand.

    A few other websites of interest:
    Kentucky Rifle Foundation
    Contemporary Makers
    AmericanLongrifles.org

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonels View Post
    There are pockets of skilled longrifle builders still around...primarily in Kentucky, Pennsylvania, Virginia, and Tennessee. My uncle got interested about 40 years ago after putting together a flintlock pistol kit (Traditions). Kits like those are certainly functional, but in the interest of more historical accuracy, he got into building rifles from the basics as they used to be. Groups like the National Muzzle Loading Rifle Association, the Kentucky Corps of Longriflemen, and the Contemporary Longrifle Association do manage to keep makers in touch with one another.

    There are also some people and websites out there who sell higher quality kits, such as Track Of The Wolf, and then folks like Jim Chambers (the owner of the Siler Lock Company) have sites that sell "kits" that are basically all of the basic raw materials of a longrifle, and then leave the maker to do all the work once those materials are in-hand.

    A few other websites of interest:
    Kentucky Rifle Foundation
    Contemporary Makers
    AmericanLongrifles.org

    They aren't just back east. We tried counting them up, and had at least 27 local builders in this and the adjoining county we could think of, that just being muzzle loader builders. Lots more modern builders around, too.
    It is interesting that very few out here know who any of the top builders back east are, as few back east know anything of the builders in this county, or out west in general.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
    John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


  16. #56
    Boolit Mold Colonels's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waksupi View Post
    They aren't just back east. We tried counting them up, and had at least 27 local builders in this and the adjoining county we could think of, that just being muzzle loader builders. Lots more modern builders around, too.
    It is interesting that very few out here know who any of the top builders back east are, as few back east know anything of the builders in this county, or out west in general.
    That's a very good point you make there...

  17. #57
    Boolit Master kens's Avatar
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    I remember attending Friendship back in the mid-seventies, the primitive area shoots. There were many active folks from Montana.
    I built a plain steel Tennessee rifle in high school. It wears a Siler (original) lock, douglas barrel, and beech stock.
    Carved out my own iron sights.

  18. #58
    Sharpsman
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    "There are a lot of things we know.....that just ain't so!"

  19. #59
    Boolit Master northmn's Avatar
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    I used to build rifles and shoot competition. Studied the various lock types and so forth. The test of a good English rainproof lock was supposed to be to prime it and put ones finger or thumb over the opening and dip it in a pail of water and then see if it flashes. Don't know if that was fact or myth, but we are talking about rifle makers like Manton who had specialists building rifles, some say 28 hands were involved in making an English game gun. Locks evolved through the years just like anything else. The rain proof lock had a channel with a narrow part of the flash pan up against the touch hole as mentioned. Many used a breech that permitted the lock to be rebated for slimness, especially in shotguns. As to touch hole size, many were built to be self priming, in which the powder when charging dribbled through the touch hole into the pan. Safety was not a big issue back then though the best locks had safeties. I built a little 25 cal flintlock that uses a #3 buckshot ball. It burns best with 4f but due to the fineness of the powder I use 3f as it became self priming with 4f.
    The most reliable flintlock I ever used was a repo Brown Bess. That lock was slow but it went off. I also did a lot of lock tuning when I ws involved in competition. Had to bend hammers and adjust springs to get them to work. Another feature of the English lock was the stirrup on the mainspring which gave a faster lock time and more snap to the frizzen. Rollers on the frizzen made them kick open more reliably.
    One has to look at the old time uses of the flintlock. A British light infantryman mentioned that early morning was the best time to hunt rebels as the dew made the locks more unrealiable and they could rush in and stick them with bayonets. Riflemen had very little impact in the Revolutionary War as their weapons were slow to load and not as reliable as the musket. The British used riflemen in the Napoleanic wars but as special units. The main brunt was that of muskets and bayonets.
    Look at the Harpers Ferry rifle which is the first American military rifle (previous to that, they were all personal) Large lock for reliability.
    As to speed of ignition, if properly tuned and primed on a firing lien they can be fairly fast, but the one thing you learn shooting flintlock is that you much follow through. The measurements I had seen on ignition times had a certain variance. Actual speed of ignition was mostly a modern idea for targets. Reliability was a big issue in the early days.

    DEP

  20. #60
    Boolit Master
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    glad to see this as a sticky. great additions and info here. thanks Rick for beginning this thread.
    WHEN ALL IS SAID AND DONE...MORE WILL BE SAID THEN DONE

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check