why dont dies hold value?

[M-Tecs]

I generally give my stuff away that I have no use for anymore.
It seems every time I try to sell something I get jewed down, well not every time, but
I am usually much happier when I just give it away.

Case in point:
A friend of mine called and asked if I had metal lathe I wanted to sell.
I said, why? are you wanting to get into metal working?
He said no, but I have a friend looking for one.
I got back to him a couple weeks later after thinking about it.
I said, I have an old Craftsman/Atlas I could let go, but I need to get $400 out of it.
I only paid $100 for it, but built a bench with leveling feet for it and replaced the old 1/6hp motor with a 1/2hp DC motor with speed control to make it possible to easily thread with it.
The friend looked it over and offered $300, I said ok even though I have more in it than that.
It has been more than three weeks and have not heard back.
This lathe has all the change gears and 4 jaw chuck and 3 jaw and some other tooling.
The cheapest little China lathe goes for a lot more than that.
I just don't know anymore; I would have been ecstatic for a deal like that when I first wanted a lathe.

I would love to find a deal like that. I am rarely that lucky.

[ulav8r]

I generally give my stuff away that I have no use for anymore.
It seems every time I try to sell something I get jewed down, well not every time, but
I am usually much happier when I just give it away.

Case in point:
A friend of mine called and asked if I had metal lathe I wanted to sell.
I said, why? are you wanting to get into metal working?
He said no, but I have a friend looking for one.
I got back to him a couple weeks later after thinking about it.
I said, I have an old Craftsman/Atlas I could let go, but I need to get $400 out of it.
I only paid $100 for it, but built a bench with leveling feet for it and replaced the old 1/6hp motor with a 1/2hp DC motor with speed control to make it possible to easily thread with it.
The friend looked it over and offered $300, I said ok even though I have more in it than that.
It has been more than three weeks and have not heard back.
This lathe has all the change gears and 4 jaw chuck and 3 jaw and some other tooling.
The cheapest little China lathe goes for a lot more than that.
I just don't know anymore; I would have been ecstatic for a deal like that when I first wanted a lathe.

After 3 weeks, you no longer want to sell it, but should be willing to let it go for $600. It is worth that.

[6string]

I generally give my stuff away that I have no use for anymore.
It seems every time I try to sell something I get jewed down, well not every time, but
I am usually much happier when I just give it away.

Case in point:
A friend of mine called and asked if I had metal lathe I wanted to sell.
I said, why? are you wanting to get into metal working?
He said no, but I have a friend looking for one.
I got back to him a couple weeks later after thinking about it.
I said, I have an old Craftsman/Atlas I could let go, but I need to get $400 out of it.
I only paid $100 for it, but built a bench with leveling feet for it and replaced the old 1/6hp motor with a 1/2hp DC motor with speed control to make it possible to easily thread with it.
The friend looked it over and offered $300, I said ok even though I have more in it than that.
It has been more than three weeks and have not heard back.
This lathe has all the change gears and 4 jaw chuck and 3 jaw and some other tooling.
The cheapest little China lathe goes for a lot more than that.
I just don't know anymore; I would have been ecstatic for a deal like that when I first wanted a lathe.

That is a good deal. But, only an informed buyer will realize it.
The same situation exists with drill presses. Just try and find one under $1000 that's not a cheap-o Chinese or Asian junker. But, if you look, you can find an old Craftsman, etc.
While older is not necessarily better with everything, there is a distinct correlation when it comes to mechanical devices that A) were intended not to be disposable commodities, and B) have been properly maintained.
I'll buy a used but nice Starrett, Mitotoyo, Browne & Sharpe, handtool over any of the import stuff that's on the market. That includes an "obsolete" Vernier scale caliper over a digital "use, wear out, and toss" caliper.

As for old reloading dies, a nicely maintained old set should always bring a good price to the right buyer.
Just remember, to a lot of new guys, reloading does not have any pass-time value. It is not a hobby. It's not enjoyable. It's just a chore needed to get cheap blasting ammo.
The tools used aren't any more significant than a broom or crowbar.

[Shawlerbrook]

Besides the great reasons above, supply and demand dictate the prices.

[Rickf1985]

After 3 weeks, you no longer want to sell it, but should be willing to let it go for $600. It is worth that.

If you weren't so far away I would be sitting in your driveway tomorrow with 400.00!

[fredj338]

depends on ones timeline. All of my dies could be sold for what i paid for them or more. Of course many have been held fr 30 years.

^^this^^

[ulav8r]

I already have 2 metal working lathes, a wood lathe, a patternmakers lathe, and a drill attachment that clamps to a bench to allows it to be used as a wood lathe. Just need 2 more metal lathes, one 16" or larger and one CNC.

[hoodat]

When I buy ANYTHING used, I look it over carefully, assume a risk, and try for the best deal I can get. If the seller offers a return policy, so much the better, but I don't haggle for it. When it comes to used dies, the guy selling them often hasn't used them. jd

[country gent]

I find this interesting in one way when people are buying they want the best / lowest price when selling they want the highest price. We searching for the best price have created this situation.
You see this in a lot of things that are low demand and high production. Measuring tools are a good example a set of mikes that originally sold for $130.00-$200.00 used bring $20.00 - $40.00

[Bent Ramrod]

Most used die sets are cheap (or remain unsold at optimistic prices) because there are so many of them.

At gun shows a lot of people have a set or three out in the most common calibers, and then there are the “used-die lot” tables where the guy has gone to all the estate sales and picked up all the cheapies from other peoples’ tables, marked them up to what the market will bear, and stacked the boxes in piles on his table. Also there are the tables rented by real stores, that have bins of brand new die sets (at full retail with a speckling of “Gun Show Special” prices) that go back to the store shelves if unsold.

There have been four generations of reloaders using presses and 7/8” x 14 dies, and little has changed from the earliest examples to the latest output. That means plenty of used dies for sale, and only the oddest of oddball calibers being anything like “collectors’ items.” Almost everything in the casting and reloading line that I’ve bought has been used, and bought cheep. Good stuff outlasts most owners and I’ve seldom been burned on a purchase.

It’s like after the big wars, where the gun companies wind up competing with their own products, which are being dumped on the market as military surplus.

The only marketer who ever figured a way out of this cumulative inevitability was the DeBeers Diamond conglomerate. Even as a trust, able to set prices as they wished, they realized that in a couple generations of ring-buying by swains for their betrothed, there would be so many legacy diamond rings floating around for sale that the diamonds themselves would be semiprecious stones at best, a drug on the market at worst.

So they hired a smart advertising firm and explained the problem to them. The firm came up with the slogans “A Diamond Is Forever,” and “Diamonds Are A Gift Of Love,” and so cemented the notion into peoples’ minds that this one stone was a pledge of perpetual love, that people started getting buried with their wedding rings. The “used market” remained unsaturated, since it was thought crass to sell such an expression of feeling, and the price for diamonds has remained high.

Maybe the reloading tool companies should start showing King Tut-style funerary vaults in their advertising, where the dear departed is buried with his loading equipment so he can continue his hobby in the afterlife. If the notion catches on, that would reduce the number of $15 .30-06 die sets, I bet.

[Soundguy]

I tend to watch new and used pr ices for stuff and have always been baffled as to why reloading dies dont hold their value as well as other reloading gear.
back in the day I might have started will cheap lee dies then graduated into very expensive Redding dies and everything in between. ive never worn a die out but have buggered some up by not being as careful as I should have. mostly jamming up resizing dies by trying accidentally having a piece of berdan primed brass in the pile .
but I still cant figure why quality dies dont resell at nearly what they cost new. iv e bought used perfectly good die sets at gun shows and other places for low as $10 a set for dies that would easily cost $60 to $80 new.

My take is that the size die is the one that usually gets all the wear.. and can have scratches..etc.. and considering the entry level die set price of lee at around 30$ new.. many people won't buy a used 80$ set of rcbs for 40-50 $ opting instead for 30$ new lee.

[Green Frog]

I think you’ve hit on the answer… about the only used dies I have sold bring about $20. Little enough to “risk”.

Froggie

[GhostHawk]

Soundguy nailed it in my opinion.


Its like used cars, drive a new one off the lot and it is no longer new, its now worth somewhere between half the selling price and the selling price.
You just don't always know what has happened to it.

IMO same is true for dies. It is very easy for someone who does not know much to damage them.

[troyboy]

Look on THE auction site. Seems all dies are more, equal to, or close enough to new when you calculate shipping, it's better to buy new. In my opinion used dues should go for 1/2 of new..... unless they are the old chrome plated. Those are worth less.

[Soundguy]

Yep many times I'll see mute sets that by the time you pay shipping and everything you probably could have either bought brand newly or you're more than halfway to the price of a new set

[bedbugbilly]

the same reason a brand new car depreciates in value the minute you drive it off the dealer's lot . . . . .

during the pandemic, when supplies dwindled . . . it became a case of supply and demand and even used items appreciated in value . . . . but in general, that spike has gone the other way now, although with Biden;s inflation, the cost of new goods has exceeded the rate of inflation . . . .

In general now, many folks are hurting and living pay check to pay check and have no disposable income . . . . forcing some to try and liquidate things to make ends meet . . . in times like this, it often becomes a buyer's market, especially when many of the same items end up for sale.

Example - brass - many calibers are still in short supply so prices increase - common caliber dies such as 38/357, 30-30, etc. may be more prolific and a number of used sets listed FS so as in any case of supply and demand, the price of used sets go down while more hard to get cartridge dies will usually go up as there are fewer listed for sale. Add on the increase in the P.O.'s mailing rates, which seem to increase on a more regular basis - something has to "give" - which is usually going to be the asking price for the used dies if a person wants/needs to sell them 'cause the postage rates certainly aren't going to budge any.

[Land Owner]

I sold dies for a little less than I paid (I keep track) to accommodate shipping. They are, after all, warranted by their Mfg. (RCBS) for life, with new replacement. I had 2 replaced from an estate sale that were broken - how do you split a die (too much torque?) and someone cracked the carbide insert in another.

I have experienced the Flea Market mentality of the Gun and Reloading Equipment purchasing Public and dismiss their "$0.10 on the dollar" in favor of selling to someone that wants and needs what I offer at the price I offer (or negotiate in serious discussion). I refuse to "give away" equipment of value, unless I am moved, as a Mentor, to help someone get started.

[Harter66]

To follow this .

In 2000-2008 prices were basically unchanged on dies from at least 1989 when I started looking at buying my own gear .
Lee was about $22-28 for 2&3 die sets.
RCBS was 32&36 for 2&3 die sets and 38 for Carbide 3 dies .
Lyman was about $4 more and Hornady .
CH , Forster and Redding started at $65 for a single sizer or seater and 85 to 140 for 2&3 die sets before you got into the exotic bushing dies etc .

What I find most of the time is that when I've bought the "better" quality used dies they are either incomplete sets or folks just haven't looked them up to see what they cost new .

As an example of this shortly after discovery of my Dad having left me a 6.5 Arisaka I hunted passively for a set of dies circa late 2018 . I got a set of Lyman 6.5×50 for some 32 shipped fair enough. I figured I should also have a backup plan just in case it had been altered......brass was needed also . So when a 2nd set of 6.5×50 in RCBS came up I bought those too . The guy also had a set of 6.5-257 dies and a Forster competition sizer and inline seater for 264 WM as well as a set of RCBS 257 Roberts. I only needed the sizer for the Roberts but when he said $15 a set and he'd ship and he counted the 264 dies as a set I jumped on it like a chicken on a worm . Turns out the widow of his mentor and other grandfather just had him come pick up all of the reloading stuff and do whatever with it . Turns out the 6.5-257 dies were 6.5-257 AI which makes them a $140 set of 2 and the Forster dies are at least $65 each . No research done just unloading stuff in excess and not likely to ever be needed.

At a gun show I bought a Redding box with 3 dies in it for 45-70 .....$35 when I got home I had an RCBS sizer to go with the Redding sizer and seater . No big deal I had a 458 WM set with an expander .
On here I bought a set of CH 32 Rem dies . Now those are special order so it $140 , 119 at the time , from RCBS , Lyman and Hornady haven't offered them at all since about the time Hornady bought Pacific. The risk in the CH dies is that they might be a custom fit die and not play well ie be the same size as my chamber . Either way , as a stock or custom fit die they are $130 . So for 35 I could take the chance. Probably the seller didn't know whether they were custom fit or stock dies either so they went with cheap enough that nobody would be mad if it didn't work out , in my case it's almost like it's a custom fit die .

RCBS probably holds value best because they will make repairs or replace parts on a 40+ yr old die with no questions, no hassles.
Lee is 50/50 .
Lyman and Hornady are happy to sell parts .
Redding really surprised me with parts in the mailbox before I had a chance to get all of the answers digested . There's no doubt that Redding dies are better finished , at least that sizer and seater are , than the $35-45 dies but I just can't see twice the price .
The Forster dies are nice but the one that have is a neck die that just kisses the shoulder and about .1 above the belt . The inline seater kind of lacks competition . Honestly I bought a second hand Forster trimmer and there's really no difference between it and the 1970 Herters collet trimmer my Dad had , except parts are available .
Again we're back to lifetime warranty that means life not necessarily the life of the tool .

I suppose that's all a goodly part of it , the long haul service that is and the cost to start weighed against that . So the $32-45 dies hold steady at 80% for sales while the "better" tools are lucky to make 50% .

[Bigslug]

Used dies probably wouldn't even occur to me until it was a weird, hard to find thing, or they just fell out of the sky and landed at my feet.

Assuming I just acquired the firearm, I'd be looking to piece the peripherals together - maybe with scope & mounts, sling or grips, brass, shell holders or plates, Lock-N-Load inserts for the Hornady press, etc... A lot of that will fall under the "how few stops can I get this done in, and how much of someone else's questionable history can I avoid?" clause.

[Soundguy]

Used dies probably wouldn't even occur to me until it was a weird, hard to find thing, or they just fell out of the sky and landed at my feet.

Assuming I just acquired the firearm, I'd be looking to piece the peripherals together - maybe with scope & mounts, sling or grips, brass, shell holders or plates, Lock-N-Load inserts for the Hornady press, etc... A lot of that will fall under the "how few stops can I get this done in, and how much of someone else's questionable history can I avoid?" clause.

Occasionally if it is going to be a low volume piece.. I'd locate a used set...