New source of gas check material for those who roll their own...

[JIMinPHX]

Now that I've gloated over my success, it's probably time for me to share a little useful info on how I did it. There were basically 4 things that allowed me to make this work without using the compound leverage gizmo that I thought I would need. The first was the Captain's recommendation to put a little curve on the die. I don't really have very much in the way of proper grinding equipment, so I did that by plunging a wizzer wheel with a Bridgeport that was spinning around 4krpm. I took about a half a thou per pass. By putting the curve on the female die & not the male, I was able to keep the knock out disk flat. I only used the spin jig to hold the work piece because it was already on the machine. A V-block would have been just fine too.

[JIMinPHX]

The other three things that made this work were -
1) sharp tools
2) close fits
3) setting the dies so that they contact near the end of the press stroke where leverage is already good.

I cut the tools pretty close to dead sharp & only left .002" of clearance between them. This required that I keep good alignment, which is why I made the die shoe up the way that I did & prayed to our lady of the blessed concentric parts. There was not much room for total error over the course of 6 part surfaces. I managed to get it on the first try though.

I still need to find some .010" copper sheet or something close to it. I looked in McMaster. They have .010" cartridge brass, but the copper sheets they list are all thicker. I'll need to look around a little more.

I've been looking for some of those aluminum bottles too, also with no luck so far. Neither my local Circle K nor my local grocery store seem to carry them. I'll have to keep looking around for them too.

[Freightman]

*Libbys * VIENNA SAUSAGE * cans are AL and a whole lot thicker than "Beer" cans .011 also *Bissel* OXYGEN CLEAN* carpet cleaner with the two AL cylinders are good and thick.022 but make beautiful cks.

[trevj]

Jim,

That's a pretty elegant solution for making flat discs. I'll look forward to seeing the report on how it works out with the copper.

I've seen copper flashing around the hardware stores in the past, but that last spike upwards in copper prices knocked that stuff to stupid prices, so it's mostly disappeared. I'll check the craft stores next time I'm in the city and see if they have any smaller sheets to try.

I've been pondering the idea of making a set of dies that would drop in to a sizer-lubricator, to use for shaping GC's.

Have not touched the project in a couple days. Gotta get back on it!

Saw 3 gophers up on the top of the snow yesterday on the way home from work! Spring soon!

How would the cartridge brass shims work out compared to copper? More fouling issues? Less? Same but different?

I picked up some 10 thou Al flashing, at $2 per square foot. I cut 42 blanks out of the edge, then trimmed off the 'holes' with scissors, and ran it through again. Figure it's cheap enough to not bother with cans and stuff, coating or no.



Cheers
Trev

[JIMinPHX]

I've been pondering the idea of making a set of dies that would drop in to a sizer-lubricator, to use for shaping GC's.

Cheers
Trev

My next bold move on this project was going to be to push my luck & try to put a forming button inside the female die. I'm hoping to make this rig into a 1-step progressive punch that makes a finished check for each pull of the handle. I'll post again when I get it made.

In the mean time, I may look around for some of those sausage cans that Freightman was talking about. They sound promising.

Regards,
Jim

[AZ-Stew]

Jim,

I can't guarantee that all the individual BevMo stores carry the Al Bud "bottles", but the one at the Tempe Marketplace (McClintock and the 202) does.

Since they're 16oz bottles, the six-pack price is a little high, but when you consider that you get beer AND checks, it's not bad.

Regards,

Stew

[JIMinPHX]

Jim,

I can't guarantee that all the individual BevMo stores carry the Al Bud "bottles", but the one at the Tempe Marketplace (McClintock and the 202) does.

Regards,

Stew

I read this too late. I was just down at the Rockabilly festival east of the airport.

I'll get down there again eventually. Thanks for the tip.

Jim

[MT Gianni]

AZStew, How are you cutting the bottles? Are you doing strips or just getting a flat part for a punch? Gianni

[rebliss]

Fellows,

You've inspired me to tackle this project as well. Currently, I'm drawing up my measurements to make punches and dies that will attach to a press. Although I am not a machinist, I have access to a couple. I plan on using the off-center method for the punch, and will be making my checks for .308 cal. My question: What size disks would I need to punch to create properly-sized checks? After some measurement, I'm figuring on .400. Also, when using Aluminum in the .015 thickness range, how much difference between my punch and die hole should I use? I was thinking of .002. And finally, how much clearance between my forming die and the punch--the full .015 thickness, or less?

[DuncaninFrance]

Can someone tell me where I can get the 'How to make your own gaschecks' information please, I have enough beer cans to sink a battleship and at $55 a 1000 for gaschecks here I would like to make some savings!

[trevj]

Somewhere either in Corbin's site, or in one of the Corbin's books, I read info to the effect of gas checks to be finished diameter, plus two times the height required.

I used that info to get me to the .295" diameter that I used for my 22 checks, and they sit a little higher than I like entirely, but if I do my part and don't succumb to the temptation to use a check that is not evenly formed, they seem to sit alright. They match up pretty well with the mangled flattened back out remains of some checks removed from some slugs that I bought already wearing them, too.

Haven't shot any of them yet!

Cheers
Trev

[JIMinPHX]

I found a few different things that I could use as base material. First, I found those Libby's Vienna sausages. The can was indeed aluminum, but the side of the can was ribbed, so I ended up just using the top in my punch. The disks punched out of it fine. The sausages tasted like the south end of a north bound rat, so I don't see myself going that route very often.

Next I found some .016" x 1/2" brass at a hardware store. It appears to be about half hard & is a bit rugged. I was able to punch it, but it took considerable effort. I think that it was a little much for the $10 Lee press that I am working with. A stronger press should not have a problem with it.

Next I found some 5 x 7" aluminum step flashing at Lowe's that was just over .010" thick. That stuff punches with little effort & @ 10 sheets for less than $3, it is certainly affordable. I figure that should be enough material to make up at least 1,500 aluminum checks. I could not find copper flashing at Lowe's or Home Depot.

Now I'm off to make up the dimple tool to mash these disks into cups.

Wish me luck.

Jim

[trevj]

Can someone tell me where I can get the 'How to make your own gaschecks' information please, I have enough beer cans to sink a battleship and at $55 a 1000 for gaschecks here I would like to make some savings!

Start with the beginning of this thread!

There are several other threads in this forum discussing different ways, and different tools that can be used.

Pat Marlin also has (had?) a group buy going on for his gas check making tool, IIRC, in 30 caliber only, so far. In one of the threads there, he shows the whole sequence of using the tool.

There is also the FreeChex tool, available off Ebay.

I'm certain there are others. If you have any access to a metal lathe and a milling machine, you are surely able to make something that will work, with a little effort. If not, you can see which tools fit your budget and style!

Cheers
Trev

[trevj]

I found a few different things that I could use as base material. First, I found those Libby's Vienna sausages. The can was indeed aluminum, but the side of the can was ribbed, so I ended up just using the top in my punch. The disks punched out of it fine. The sausages tasted like the south end of a north bound rat, so I don't see myself going that route very often.

That goes a ways towards explaining the shape of a Vienna sausage! Coincidence? Maybe not!

Next I found some .016" x 1/2" brass at a hardware store. It appears to be about half hard & is a bit rugged. I was able to punch it, but it took considerable effort. I think that it was a little much for the $10 Lee press that I am working with. A stronger press should not have a problem with it.

Tried it with the die adjusted a little closer to the can-over point on the press? My cheesy Lyman convertible hand/bench press (certainly not the epitome of strength!) makes a decent pop when I have the dies set up so that the cut takes place at mid stroke, but I can barely tell it has cut, when set so the cut happens at the bottom of the lever throw. That on 10 thou Al. and 10 or 11 thou brass shim, whether as got from the package, or annealed.

Next I found some 5 x 7" aluminum step flashing at Lowe's that was just over .010" thick. That stuff punches with little effort & @ 10 sheets for less than $3, it is certainly affordable. I figure that should be enough material to make up at least 1,500 aluminum checks. I could not find copper flashing at Lowe's or Home Depot.

Now I'm off to make up the dimple tool to mash these disks into cups.

Wish me luck.

Jim

Good luck!

I bought a section of .010" Al. flashing 12" wide, for about $2 per foot.

It seems too cheap to bother with cans.

Still looking around for copper.

Cheers
Trev

[JIMinPHX]

Well I got the forming button inside this thing & managed to pop out a few cups. They are sticking inside my female forming die, so I needed to dig them out with a small screwdriver. I'll either need to get a stronger die spring or I'll need to add a solid pin to push the finished parts out of the die.

I tried using the sausage can, the flashing, a coke can & the half hard brass. The coke can was too thin for the amount of clearance that I left between the male & female forming surfaces. It wrinkled. The brass, the sausage can & the flashing all produced good looking cups.

Unfortunately, my guesstimate on dimensions was slightly off & the aluminum cups are a slip fit on the shank of a boolit. I'll have to remake the female a little smaller. It worked out pretty well with the .016 brass though. That material was thick enough that it ended up fitting on the boolit shank just about correctly. The brass cup is now attached to the bottom of a 150-grain Lee flat point & looks pretty good.

[JIMinPHX]

Pat Marlin also has (had?) a group buy going on for his gas check making tool, IIRC, in 30 caliber only, so far. In one of the threads there, he shows the whole sequence of using the tool.

Trev

You mean that I'm just reinventing the wheel here? I could have just bought one of these from Pat? I wish I knew that before. I would not have wasted so much time & effort on this. Now I feel like an Idiot for having done this.

[Slow Elk 45/70]

JiminPHX, no way man, we are enjoying this...I for one think we all need to reach out a bit and see what we can do... you might find a better mouse trap..

[Russel Nash]

Tagged for later...

south end of a northbound rat...

[DuncaninFrance]

From the point of view of a total novice at casting I for one very much appreciate all the information that is posted here and my thanks for doing it.

My main aim is to become sufficiently competent at producing my own ammo so that I know it's ability and can also make my hobby more cost effective. It would also be greener as I am re-cycling too

I am hoping to start casting for my No:4 Enfield and will be using a Lee 90367 mold ( Gas Checked 309-160 grain )

Here it is.

[trevj]

You mean that I'm just reinventing the wheel here? I could have just bought one of these from Pat? I wish I knew that before. I would not have wasted so much time & effort on this. Now I feel like an Idiot for having done this.

I hope you was grinnin' the whole time you typed that!

If it were about the destination, rather than the journey, we'd all be buying the damned things, eh!

Nothing gets the brain working so well as to see someone elses idea, and to start thinking about the ways it could be improved upon, or adapted to ones own situation.

Cheers
Trev