New source of gas check material for those who roll their own...

[JimKirk]

Trevj....
just what I had mind for my design ....I don't need the 7/8" threaded shank....just a smooth 7/8" (maybe 1" in lenght) up to a ring the size of a Forster split die ring....then another a smooth 7/8" section to clear the top of a Forster Coax press..then the cutting head like you have. The punch could have a .473 rim that the Coax shell holder jaws would close on....the upward pressure would be on the flat part of shell holder base. The bad part is...I don't have a lathe and my access is more limited now than ever! I wouldn't even need the wrench flats either.

Jimmy K

[trevj]

JimKirk,

You need a lathe!

I dunno how the rest of the world lives without being able to make stuff like this! Really. Can't comprehend it.

My punch is too long, no biggie, I'll make the next iteration a little shorter. I drilled all the way through the ppunch holder, and tapped it 1/4" fine, so I can have good use out of the holder at least, later on, if this project turns into something else...

I was not sure how much pressure I would be dealing with, so did not counter bore down as close as Kaj did on the top of his die body. Was not sure how the stainless would hold up either. I could go a lot shorter.

Pondering trying case hardening (probably with Kasenite) on some leaded free machining steel, for the "next" try. If this one wears too quickly, anyways. Possibly a die with changeable cutter inserts.

My cut takes place at about 80 percent of handle throw, so is nowhere near at the peak of the power available, even on the cruddy little Lyman convertible press that it is on. The rest of the stroke is enough to lift the cut disc barely free of the top of the body. I have been peering down the hole to see my alignment, so it's not super quick, but I figure maybe 10 minutes or less to do the hundred or so blanks I cut already.
If I mount it down lower, and install a tray (round hole cut out of a plastic dish) so I can flick the disk into the tray, it'll go much faster. Without getting into automatic advance mechanisms, visual alignment seems faster than drawing all the lines and trying to use them, to me.

Once I work out the actual dimensions I want, I am thinking that I can grind a shank from a chucking reamer into submission as a punch, and have an all High Speed Steel punch. Should hold up pretty well.

I gotta track down a local source for copper flashing strips, and see if I can get some thick enough for what I want. Maybe a stop at the local paper office, too, to see if they have an offset press still.

The adventure continues. I sure couldn't see whacking a thousand of these out with a hammer as being a good time! No sir!

Cheers
Trev

[Ole]

Someone needs to send a link of this thread to the people that make the cheap Wolf/Ruskie ammo.

I'm confident that they could make gas checks for $10/1000 all day long.

[trevj]

Yeah, no kidding.

Not rocket science!

The thought of paying $50 a thousand for checks, has me putting in some thinkin'...

Cheers
Trev

[KTN]

Trevj,

looking good , I'm looking forward seeing your finished checkmaker.
That counter bore on top of my punchdie is there so I can put plastic bottle in it, to catch disks as they are punched.




On the right is my new project,case trimmer die for my Dillon 1050 .



Kaj

[Cap'n Morgan]

Now here's another harebrained idea for gaschecks.

I had hoped I could avoid messing with gaschecks for my 375 H&H, and stick with FB only. But around 1400 fps the groups disappeared into thin air - and I didn't invest in a 375 just to use it as an overgrown 22LR.

Since I didn't have any copper material, but lots of solid brass at hand I decided to try milling some gaschecks:





The material is round 2.75" barstock brass. Using a special two flute trepanning tool the outside of the check is cut first, then the tool makes an orbiting motion and puts a 3 degree outward taper on the outside. Next the inside is removed with an endmill using helical interpolation. Finally the finished gaschecks are cut of with a T-slot type slit saw.

Each "batch" produces 25 gaschecks, and then it's only a matter of lowering the start point .165 - press the green button and the process is repeated. No deburring necessary - CNC is a wonderful thing!





Ohoy mate! Thar's gold in them thar dubloons!




The gaschecks fit nicely on the bullet (325 grains). During sizing the tapered outside is crimped on/into the shank making it impossible for the check to seperate from the bullet.

So far I have only tried a few shots (1800 fps), but the results look very promising.

[RayinNH]

Cap'n, those look like boolit jewelry. It's a shame to put them on lead boolits. I think you need silver. ...Ray

[yodar]

It seems like the .015/.016" thickness might be a bit thick. I DID find that some of the cat food cans (I think mine are 9-Lives brand) are .008/.009" thick. The cans I am using are coated on the inside but I found that if I use the coated side for the inside of the GC it works well. As you say the pop cans are thin, but I have a 358156 single cavity that the check shank was damaged on when I go it. I carefully bored it to take the pop can checks at .004" thick. REALLY cheap boolits now!

Edd

Too thick ! Waaaay too thick. I prefer to put my home brew beer in them, I have enough to bottle 5 gallons of homebrew

yodar

[oldtoolsniper]

And to think I have two 109 lathes and no clue as to how to use em

[Charlie Sometimes]

Cap'n Morgan- Is that really cost effective?

For those milled gas checks, you should turn your own boolits, too. Doesn't seem right to put those on "regular" cast stuff.

You have inhaled too many fumes from the lead pot!

Those sure are purty though!

[JimKirk]

Old Tool..
Is that in Craftsman 109 ...I think that is what we had in Indust. arts class....didn't know crap about a lathe then(nor do I now) ...but I made it work ...wish I had that old machine .....they shut down the HS and some dude made off with the Craftsman, a truck load tool bits and accessaries for it.... why didn't I find out until it was too late!

Trev...what model would you look for if you were getting a small lathe?

Jimmy K

[JimKirk]

Hey I know some of you are laughing your rears off.... but this is why we're shooting Boolits instead of rocks on the end of sticks......some guy was thinking how to .......
Jimmy K

[oldtoolsniper]

Jimkirk,
Both of them are craftsman 109's. I buy old woodworking tools and restore them. Mostly hand tools and I picked these up along the way. This spring the community college has a basic machinist class geared towards hobby/farm equipment repair that I am going to take so I can get myself another expensive hobby to save money.

[Boondocker]

I can relate to that oldtool I have an old seneca falls lathe and an old Bridgeport I bought that I found out I can take perfectly good steel and turn it into useless hunk of iron. They are closing our phone company garage for good the 1 st quarter and if nothing comes along shortly the local community college is offering 12 credits to the unemployed. Machine shop looks interesting and it does relate to my field so it cant hurt. The machine work these guys are doing is simply amazing and my hats are off to them.

[Cap'n Morgan]

Cap'n Morgan- Is that really cost effective?

Well, perhaps not, but it seemed like a good way to spend a sleety, rainy Sunday - especially when the alternative was cleaning out the attic

Now with the tooling and programming out of the way, a setup takes about ten minutes. The output is a little over 200 checks/hour - not bad, really, as I can run it as a second operation while working overtime - with the boss' blessing.

[JimKirk]

Trev.....
Thinking again...a roller ....hand turned or electrical...that would flatten ...roll.. copper wire(House wire say # 12) into a sheet.... maybe rolled to the thickness (.010-.015) needed for a single cup blank..limited by only the length of wire you have. I see two rollers ...one powered ..the other controled by pressure devise ...say hand screws (like a planing mill) ...insert wire.. out comes flat sheet of copper...may have to run it twice to get the sheet thin enough... Pass through blank cutter then cup former .....
What do you think?

Jimmy K

[oldtoolsniper]

I think copper work hardens.

[trevj]

Trev...what model would you look for if you were getting a small lathe?

Jimmy K

When I firt started looking, the area I lived in was about dry of machine tools, so I was looking for anything I could get. Life is better now, with the availability of the Chinese hobby machines, all said and done.

I eventually bought a really used Myford ML7 through a friend, and have since bought a Myford Super 7, and gradually built up a pile of accesories.

I have had a South Bend 9" that was a project that never got finished, and a Rockwell Delta 10", that now resides in a friend's shop.

My next machine will be a 12" or 13" swing machine. I'll keep my Myford, though.

What to look for? Something you can use. Any lathe, is better than no lathe. Get some books! Read all you can, if you want to learn what you can do. Check the public library for machining books, check with the local shop class teacher to see what they are using (Technology of Machine Tools, is one title). Stay away from Machinery's Handbook, until you can actullly use the information, it's basicly the mother of all wall charts in book form, rather than a how-to book.

Check out Home Shop Machinist magazine. If you don't feel the need to subscribe, grab an issue now and then, and check out the advertising. Lots of stuff out there!

Take a look at Varmint Al's Mini-Lathe page (Google will find it!) and see what can be done with a 7x10 Chinese hobby lathe.

Bigger, heavier machines will do wonderful stuff, as far as rigidity and precision go, but you can do the same work using brains and patience, on a much lighter, much less expensive machine.

Cap'n Morgan,

What mill are you using! Love the jewellery! High tech solution to replace a low tech problem!

Consider the parts catcher/strainer idea stolen, too! That's awesome!

Cheers
Trev

[trevj]

Trev.....
Thinking again...a roller ....hand turned or electrical...that would flatten ...roll.. copper wire(House wire say # 12) into a sheet.... maybe rolled to the thickness (.010-.015) needed for a single cup blank..limited by only the length of wire you have. I see two rollers ...one powered ..the other controled by pressure devise ...say hand screws (like a planing mill) ...insert wire.. out comes flat sheet of copper...may have to run it twice to get the sheet thin enough... Pass through blank cutter then cup former .....
What do you think?

Jimmy K

Take a look at goldsmiths rolls or jewellers rolls, also called a rolling mill. Not a cheap tool to buy new, but if you know what it is, and you see one cheap...

You would have to anneal the copper wire a couple times to get it down thin enough, then you still might have to deal with an alloy that does not deal as well with being worked, for one reason or another.

Dunno how desparate times would have to be to get me looking all that hard at an idea like that... But it could be done.

Copper pipe too. Was actually pondering pipe as a source for jacket cups for drawing up ...

Ideas, eh...

Cheers
Trev

[inuhbad]

I've always wondered about those Warsteiner & Heineken Mini-Kegs you can get at the liquor store... Are those Aluminum or Steel?