Seecamp Vs Kahr 380

[sawinredneck]

Been MIA for a while, life....
Nutshell, I'm getting old, my health isn't getting better and I'm finding more appreciation for "mouse guns". I've gone from an XD SC to a Hellcat, but I'm wanting something smaller and lighter now. Think sweat pants, underwear, swim trunks small. I'm not the biggest fan of .380, but I'm not going to pay $1,800 for a Rorghbar either, that I probably can't shoot.
As I see it, pro's and con's of both.
Seecamp:
Pro's
It just works, right out of the box.
Stupid small.
It's a marvel of craftsmanship.
It's light.
Same capacity as larger guns.
Con's:
It's stupid expensive for what it is.
No sights.
It's just a bit heavier than some competitors.
The Kahr:
I'm lumping in the "P" and the "CW" as they are both pretty much the same price on the used market right now, yes, there are pros and cons of both, but I'm equating them as equals in this regard.
Pro's:
Considerably cheaper.
Decent sights.
It fits your hand like an actual gun.
You can find mags that don't cost the price of a tank of gas.
Con's:
The break in, even buying used, you will need to test the gun thoroughly!
It's a little larger than the Seecamp.

Yes, I've looked at this field and have weeded out a LOT of guns, LCP, I just don't like it! It feels like shooting a Smith and Wesson Pistol of the '80's, like a 2x4" in your hand.
Sig 238, too heavy, too snappy, and just too expensive.
Diamondback DB9, honestly love the gun, but it's not enough smaller than the Hellcat to appreciate.
Beretta 3032 Tomcat, actually on the short list, but .32ACP, "Meh" and it's going for the same price as the Seecamp on the used market KelTec P3AT, again, on the short list, but a little larger than either the Kahar or the Seecamp, but the price is very attractive and they seem to work well.
Where my mind is at:
I want the Seecamp because it's so small, but the Kahr I can appreciate because it actually feels like a "real" gun.
Any input is greatly appreciated.

[HWooldridge]

One of my best friends has a .380 Kahr and loves it (I don’t know which model but I can ask him). He carries daily and had a custom leather wallet holster made for it. You absolutely cannot see it when he is holding.

The Seecamp is a bit expensive for my tastes but it’s a fine piece.

Personally, I carry a Smith 642 Airweight and like it for both size and weight.

[sawinredneck]

One of my best friends has a .380 Kahr and loves it (I don’t know which model but I can ask him). He carries daily and had a custom leather wallet holster made for it. You absolutely cannot see it when he is holding.

The Seecamp is a bit expensive for my tastes but it’s a fine piece.

Personally, I carry a Smith 642 Airweight and like it for both size and weight.

That's my problem with the Seecamp, I get it's small, but it's not a LOT smaller than the Kahr, and the Kahr is pretty small! But double the price?

[billmc2]

I had a Rorbaugh, you're not missing out on anything; recoil spring needed to be replaced every 200 rounds. Very difficult to disassemble/reassemble. It helped to have the aftermarket jig, but not much. They sold out to Remington and now they are out of business.

I've never had a Seecamp or a Kahr. Wasn't the Seecamp built to run reliably with only Winchester Silvertips? Other brands gave it problems. (I forget now, but think it had to do with bullet shape.)

I've had a couple of LCPs but found them to small for me to shoot well; still have one but no longer shoot it.
Keltec P32 was also to small for me but I liked the idea.

I had a Tomcat a long time ago. I liked it. If I came across another for the right price I'd consider picking it up. I don't recall the numbers off the top of my head but the dimensions of the 32 bullet vs the 380 bullet are not that much different. I have a Browning BDA (made by Beretta and essentially the Beretta Cheetah); its a 380. I picked up a 32 ACP barrel for it and I can now shoot 32 or 380 out of it, just by swapping barrels and using the appropriate mag.

What you might want to consider is the Ruger LCP Max. Its just slightly larger than the LCP II but not enough to notice, they'll fit the same holster. It has an internal hammer, not a striker. It comes with one 10 round and one 12 round extended mag. I've found this much easier to shoot than the original LCP. With the extended mag I can get all my fingers on it. That's 12 + 1 of 380 ACP. Mine is loaded with Underwood 68 gr Xtreme Defender. The LCP Max also comes with factory night sights.

[M-Tecs]

I have the Kahr 380. I really liked it and still do. It's my go to for very decreet carry and was my daily carry. Since the Floyd riots, I mostly carry a Sig 365 XL.

[stubshaft]

I have a Kahr CW-40 and while it is not a CW-380 and is one inch longer and a half inch wider it is my favorite for pocket carry. I have shot thousands of rounds through it without a hiccup and it delivers good accuracy and controllability.

It finds itself in my pocket more frequently than my 642 or model 36. I think that the Kahr is one of the most underrated pistols around.

[Bigslug]

The Seecamp is blowback, the Kahr .380 should be a locked breech, recoil-operated gun and should be considerably less snappy.

I'm a big fan of the Glock 42 - thinner and lighter than a PPK with considerably less abuse to the hand. It is not the smallest .380 out there because they opted to err on the side of control - it is easier to shoot quickly and well than the tiny-tinies. With a pinky extension on the mag, most folks can get all their digits on one; without, it pocket holsters nicely. A Streamlight TLR-6 flashlight bolted to the triggerguard doesn't increase the length or width and you almost have a legitimate combat pistol.

[pietro]

That's my problem with the Seecamp, I get it's small, but it's not a LOT smaller than the Kahr, and the Kahr is pretty small! But double the price?

Real steel vs plastic fantastic, better concealability, plus limited Seecamp production (comparably) is why the Seecamp gave me the best bang for my buck.

Here, with my NAA Black Widow hideout

[GhostHawk]

I've gone to .32's, be it .32sw long, .32acp in my Beretta italian trade in (Which is awesome btw, 12 + 1 and the holster has a spot for a spare mag)

And .22wmr, cost is about the same to shoot either. But with the .22mag there is no work casting, cleaning brass, sizeing, loading. Just grab another box and go.

What I carry the most is a NAA Ranger II break top in .22mag. 5 shots, easily reloadable. Just don't try to reach out. Wait till they are in your face close, stick it in there nose and put them where you want them.

[rintinglen]

I have a trio of Kahrs, one k40, K9, and a CW 9. All have worked well from the get go, though the 40 has fallen out of favor due to recoil issues as I approach my 7th decade. I have shot a Seecamp, but other than size, ("a gun to carry when you can't carry a gun.."), they are just this side of useless. Heavy trigger, NO SIGHTS, and a little picky about ammo, not to mention the price, I would not like to have to use one to try to defend myself. I would go Kahr CW-380 in a heart beat.

In fact, I nearly did so at a gun show a couple of weeks ago, but I didn't have enough money with me to meet his "350.00, firm" price after picking up some powder. Had 4 mags and a cheesy pocket holster with the gun and I toyed with going to the bank, but my experience has always been that the gun is sold when I come back.

[45workhorse]

I've gone to .32's, be it .32sw long, .32acp in my Beretta italian trade in (Which is awesome btw, 12 + 1 and the holster has a spot for a spare mag)

And .22wmr, cost is about the same to shoot either. But with the .22mag there is no work casting, cleaning brass, sizeing, loading. Just grab another box and go.

What I carry the most is a NAA Ranger II break top in .22mag. 5 shots, easily reloadable. Just don't try to reach out. Wait till they are in your face close, stick it in there nose and put them where you want them.

They actually make speed loaders for the ranger.
That is my daily carry around the the house.
1911 when I hit the town.

[pettypace]

There's a .380 Seecamp that shows up from time to time at Snubbyfest. It has a bad reputation: it HURTS! No one wants to shoot it.

[FergusonTO35]

If you think a Sig P238 is snappy then you for sure aren't going to like either the Kahr or Seecamp. My best friend has a Kahr and you definitely have to hang on to it. I say Glock 42 all the way. I have two of them and find that they conceal just as easily as any others unless you have really small pockets. If small size and ease of shooting is your main criteria, how about a Ruger LCP II .22 LR? Holds 10+1 and follow up shots come quickly. My example is really accurate and centerfire reliable. I feed it Aguila Interceptor 40 grain which clock an actual 1000 fps across my chronograph from this tiny pistol.

[sawinredneck]

Good info, as I expected from this group, thanks all.
A couple of things:
The origina Seecamp, in .32ACP was designed specifically for Winchester Silvertips, they have since changed the design, but do have a list of recommended ammo to use in the guns.
While I'm not completely opposed to .32acp it's only about 2/3rds the power of .380, harder to find and more expensive when you do find it. The one thing the LCP really did was invigorate the dying .380 cartridge!
.22 of any sort is out for me in something this size, I tried to use a little Beretta .22 to dispatch a dying cat and it didn't end well. I lost faith in that combination after that and wont ever go back.
The LCP max, I gave it some consideration but it's biggest attraction is the reason I don't like it for this role, loaded it's too heavy. It still feels like a S&W 2x4 in my hands, it's not a lot smaller than the Hellcat and by the time it's loaded, it's not much lighter than the Hellcat.
The Hellcat isn't going anywhere and will be my main choice for EDC, it was bought soley for carry all day, every day and it's fit that role well. But as my back is getting worse I'm finding it hard to put on a pair of jeans occasionally, so I'm in sweat pants, no belt and just a drawstring, this will be my "I can barely walk, get dressed, can't defend myself on my own, having a bad day" carry gun. Mainly just around the house or quick trips when someone drags me out.
But as many of you are pointing out, and I kinda knew, the Hellcat is pretty hard to beat as it is.
I appreciate the input so far and look forward to hearing more! Thank you all.

[M-Tecs]

.22 of any sort is out for me in something this size, I tried to use a little Beretta .22 to dispatch a dying cat and it didn't end well. I lost faith in that combination after that and wont ever go back.

.

A friend of mine ran a self-funded cat rescue for about three years. She placed hundreds of cats in new homes. Possible more than a thousand. It was a rural area by a major city. Once the word got out people just started dropped loose cats in her farmyard. She would feed the outside ones and was able to catch and place most of them.

Every month or two I dispatched the ones that were not suitable for placement do to disposition or health issues. Cats take a lot to kill cleanly unless it's a brain shot. I mostly used a 22 target pistol for shots to the brain on the ones that would stay close. A scoped 22 rifle for the rest. Only tried body shots a couple of times. Like you say that didn't work well. That was with 22 HP hyper velocities.

[shooting on a shoestring]

I owned a Kahr CW 380 for a couple of months. It was not a good experience.

To cut to the chase it started mis-firing. Pulling the trigger would get a little click but the firing pin would not hit the primer. It got worse/more frequent very quickly and soon would not get through a whole magazine. Turned out I could watch the rear of the slide rise as I pulled the trigger. The slide would rise far enough that the the firing pin block (or more correctly the striker block) would not get pushed up far enough to let the striker pass. I could hold the rear of the slide down and it would fire every time.

The rear frame rail tabs were very small and there was not enough meat there to allow me to bend them down and tighten up the slack. The right side of the slide at the rear is also very tiny where it contacts the frame tab. Nothing could be done there. I sold it cheap with full disclosure and disgust.

I bought the gun used from a gun shop and can’t say how many rounds it saw before me. I only managed to get a few hundred through it.

Not to say all Kahr CW 380’s are problem guns, but after looking hard at the design I didn’t want one anymore.

Right after that fiasco I bought a new S&W Bodyguard 380 which had light primer strikes/fail to fire right out of the box and also right after being returned from S&W. That gun was also sold cheap with full disclosure, but to a different guy.

While I’m at it I’ll tell about my experience with a new G42. Took a long time to diagnose but the frame was the original version (no circle with the 1 or 2 indicating the first revision and second revision down inside the frame behind the trigger) but had the second revision fire control parts installed, sold as new in the box.

The slide would intermittently lock back prematurely. Turns out the mag well was so large the magazine could rotate and allow even pointed TC boolits to nick the slide lock under recoil. It never ran two magazines in a row of any factory rounds or hand loads without locking back. When it did shoot, it was surprisingly easy to hit with. Trigger was pretty good too. I might someday revisit another one. It went away in the covid gun famine.

My keeper 380’s are the LCP (which has broken on me 3 times and caused me to buy the Kahr, the S&W and the Glock, but I got it fixed and running again before I could get its replacements working), a Kimber Micro 380 (bought new and is now high mileage and runs great, hits good) and a Colt M1908 in great shape. The Colt is my favorite but I don’t carry it much. The Kimber just works (and has night sights and has ambi thumb safety). The LCP doesn’t get carried or shot much anymore. I don’t hit well with it and I’ve come to expect it to break something every 1500-2000 rounds.

[Mk42gunner]

.380's to me fall into the smaller than a J frame or 9mm pocketgun niche. If you are going to carry something that is as big as a 9mm, it might as well be a 9mm.

I tried a SIG P290 in .380, decent gun but it is also available in 9mm (should have gotten that), and it is as big in the pocket as a J frame. It is very reliable though.

Next was a Ruger LCPII. Decent, no malfunctions, terrible sights.

LCPMAX, decent, a bit heavy for what it is. Biggest plus is I can see the sights.

If I could get a regular LCPII with the sights of the MAX, I would be a happy camper.

If I am knowingly going into a situation where I may need to actually use my carry gun, I either don't go or carry something bigger than a .380.

Robert

[charlie b]

...The Hellcat isn't going anywhere and will be my main choice for EDC, it was bought soley for carry all day, every day and it's fit that role well. But as my back is getting worse I'm finding it hard to put on a pair of jeans occasionally, so I'm in sweat pants, no belt and just a drawstring, this will be my "I can barely walk, get dressed, can't defend myself on my own, having a bad day" carry gun. Mainly just around the house or quick trips when someone drags me out.
But as many of you are pointing out, and I kinda knew, the Hellcat is pretty hard to beat as it is.
I appreciate the input so far and look forward to hearing more! Thank you all.

Why not get an ankle holster for the Hellcat? Or a bellyband?

I found my limits of small. Started with a Walther .25. Could not shoot it without cutting two grooves on the web of my hand. Then a little .32 auto (I think it was a Seecamp, not sure). Didn't cut me, but, could not grip it well enough. Then tried a derringer. Worked but hurt like heck and could not hit anything with it. Found I needed to be able to grip with at least two full fingers. The smallest semi-auto ended up being a PPK (which is about the same size as the Hellcat) or a 5 shot snubby (Taurus 85). A LEO friend introduced me to the 1903/1908 Colt. That was ideal for me. Light, narrow, all rounded surfaces, enough grip to actually hold onto it well. Easy to hide and carry. After getting new sights it was also very accurate.

[MT Gianni]

I have a Kahr CW 40 and bought it used. It has done all I have asked it to and has enough mass to deal with second shot recoil. Not all of the 380's will do that.

[M-Tecs]

I also have a Kahr MK40 Elite. Both of my Kahr's have been 100% reliable.