Seecamp Vs Kahr 380

[charlie b]

I'm a rather large fellow, big beer belly so the belly holsters don't conceal well on me. With my back issues I'm not very flexible to start with and the days I envision carrying this gun, I'm not getting to an ankle holster, at least not in time to do any good.
Good suggestions though, thank you.
I do occasionally carry a back pack or a "murse", but I'm very self conscious of this, it's not something I'm used to doing, it feels awkward, unwieldy, just really haven't found a routine with that type of carry that I like yet.

YW. I am also a bit big and have trouble with some kinds of carry. If I need to carry for those short runs I would grab my fanny pack. Lots who wear sweat pants have them so it doesn't look too out of place. The rest of the time I wear a paddle holster on my hip. I also have a Milt Sparks (executive) for the 1911 but it is carried only when I can wear something like a jacket.

And, yes, I practiced a bit with the fanny pack so I could make a clean draw.

[lawdog941]

Ever consider a Kel-Tec P32? 7+1 and even smaller than an LCP. Load with Fiocchi 73 grain ball for an actual 900 fps on my chronograph.

+1 With that small of a bullet, penetration is key, and the Fiocchi load is it. It's mostly a "get away from me" gun.

[sawinredneck]

Long winded, rambling post, I app[ologize in advance, and appreciate those of you who read this hot mess.

It's been a rather interesting couple of days here.
I came across the NAA version of the Seecamp, and could get it at a semi decent price in .32ACP, going against everything I've already said. But then I watched a video with Paul Harrel. like him or not, he's a honest fellow IMO, and the video was "Is .32ACP enough". After wating the video, I honestly have to agree, it's just not! Then, as I stated, he reiterated, the cost of ammo, vs. other calibers, it just wasn't worth it and if you had one, sell it and get something better! Then the fact it was nearly two pounds didn't help!
My wife and I had to do some running around so we hit some local gun stores while we where out, Acadamy, as expected, was sad. They had an LCP and a S&W Bodygaurd, honestly liked it better than the LCP. She suggested a revolver, but after looking at the size and weight, she was over that quickly.
Went to Cabela's, the Kimber micro9 was interesting, but considerably heavier than the Hellcat. They had the LCP, LCPII and LCP MAX, but not much more of Interest.
Last stop, Range 54, local to Wichita, they didn't have much of SQUAT! LCP II's in 22, SIG 365/380 and Glock 43's. I told them I was looking for a mouse gun and was surprised at the limited selection they had. His response "Yeah, because the SUCK!" Can't fault him for honesty! He kept trying to push me towards a Glock 43, I finally said, "Fine, you pull yours out, I'll pull mine out," To which we compared the Hellcat to the Glock 43, it was ugly! The Hellcat was shorter, less tall, but just a bit thinner.
We bought nothing.
BUT, I'd done more research and found the Kahr PM/CM9 series! A little smaller, a little lighter than the Hellcat, but much less capacity. But as I'm already invested heavily in 9mm, it beat buying another type of ammunition.
So I sat the wife down tonight and showed her the options. Went through everything, those of you that don't know this site, KNOW it! It's amazing! https://www.handgunhero.com/
We weighed out the difference in 12 vs 7 rounds of 9mm, we compared sizes of all the guns I had on my lists, went through the pro's and con's. Yes, I even showed her the Tunderwear holsters. (I'm sorry, I appreciate the suggestion, but NO on so many levels and for so many reasons!!! Just the fact that they suggest you not carry with one in the chamber sealed the deal for me!} We looked at Bellybands, ankle, even with my limitations, honestly we went deep!
Then she piped off, "You really like this gun, why don't we find seat pants that let you carry it?" Because I'm an idiot and didn't think to look for that?
I kid you not, they make "Tactical sweat pants!" I will be trying a set very soon!
So in a nutshell, I'm an idiot, as others have said, learn to buy clothes to suit what you want to carry, and it's just damn hard to beat a Hellcat or Sig 365 for what they offer.

[FergusonTO35]

+1 With that small of a bullet, penetration is key, and the Fiocchi load is it. It's mostly a "get away from me" gun.

I see no point in HP handgun ammo below 9x19 power level. None of them have the velocity and/or bullet weight to be consistently effective, at least in commonly available rounds. I load the Accurate 313-76-FP in my Kel-Tecs pushed by 1.9 grains Hodgdon Titewad (not Titegroup). Gets around 850 fps and still fairly controllable and not too hard on the gun.

[sawinredneck]

Back from the grave, I'm a bad man! I fell into a small windfall and happened across a CW380 at the same time. I now own a Kahr CW380.
I like it, and I don't, but I'm liking it more as time goes by. Picked this up on Gunbroker, three mags, front night sight, well used (I didn't have to go through the 250rd breakin!!) in the box with all manuals. Shipping, transfer fees, a little more than I wanted to be in, but under $450. Picked up a "Rangemaster" pocket holster from Cabela's, I HATE IT! (Suggestions please?) Ordered some Siera Outdoorsman 90gr hollow points, $9.99 a box of 20 (I fully plan to run Underwood, just need to save up some money) but good enough to test with.
First problem, I don't know if it was the person selling it, or the store selling it, but it was packed in grease! Not as bad, but seriously close to the old SKS's we used to buy in the '90's packed in cosmoline. Spent a half hour cleaning it.
Took it to the range, groups at 7yds were amazing, but always low left, even if I aimed high right, groups were always on the bottom left. 3-4" groups BTW. The grouping impressed me, but I knew there was more, the range master told me it was anticipation. I dry fired the heck out of this thing, but still couldn't group it. Called a friend of mine and got some gun training from him. First thing he noticed was I was gripping so the gun was already pointing left instead of being inline with my arm. Fixed that. Then I was on center, but low. Had to learn to stack the trigger and I was on the bullseye shooting 9's at 7yds. I'm not unhappy with that. It's always nice to have someone willing, and able, to spend a little time and work with you then explain things in a way you can understand.
Today I did a complete disassembly, firing pin, extractor, etc., I DO NOT recommend this! Long drawn out story of me looking for an hour trying to find a little pin that went flying!
But, I got the rest of the grease out, found some high spots and burrs that I stoned down, and, managed to get it all back together! It's a little smoother now, but you still don't ever know when it's going to go off, there's no "wall", no real take up, it's just pull, pull, pull, then pull a little more, and "BANG!" They make a spring kit for it, but I'm not really sure I want the trigger much lighter, I'd just like to know when it's ready so I could stack the trigger better.
All in all, I'm pretty happy with it, I still need to order the Magguts springs (money) and definitely get a better holster, but it's sure a lot nicer to carry around than even the Hellcat, as small as it may be.

[Tall]

Not seeing any price difference. Either one sells for under $600 on GI.

[sawinredneck]

Not seeing any price difference. Either one sells for under $600 on GI.

I'm just saying I paid a little more than I wanted to, but I'm not unhappy and the 3rd mag w/nitesight pushed it over the edge for me.

[billmc2]

I use a Remora Holster for my LCP Max. I like it. They say you can tuck it into your waistband, I've never tried that. I use it in a pocket. https://remoraholsters.com/

I have an original LCP with a stainless slide. As for hitting the target, forget it for me. Its to skinny, it always sits cocked in my hand. If I get it straight, then my trigger finger goes to the second knuckle (the one closest to your palm). I've kept it because whatever I could get for it, its worth more to me to stash it for "emergencies'. What I did do is to sand and polish the slide. I got down to 1000 grit before the polishing compound. Now its all shinny and lives in the back of the safe.

[Texas by God]

I second the Remora holster. I have them for my Commander.45, my .40 Shield, my Rossi .38 snub, and my LCP .380. I carry inside my waistband at 4 o’clock.
The most comfortable one I’ve tried. They stay in place, too.


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[rintinglen]

Some years back, I developed severe sciatica from too much good eating and a sedentary job. Belts were a definite no-no. But where I worked it was unwise to be unarmed. I ended up in sweat pants with a Beretta Tomcat in a pocket holster and suspenders, under a pocket-tee. I have since lost weight and started a walking program that has restored my ability to wear a 38 inch waist trouser and carry bigger guns. But I still have a pair of navy sweats and my suspenders, "just in case."

[FergusonTO35]

I'm glad that the Kahr is working for you. I've retired my LCP as a carry gun, it's probably going to be traded in on another Kimber Micro. I can normally shoot DAO guns fairly well, including snubbies and my Kel-Tecs, but not the LCP. In a defensive situation I can't acquire a clear sight picture and then carefully stage the trigger, this is the only way I can shoot the LCP fairly well. I know it works great for alot of folks and that's good, it just doesn't work for me.

[sawinredneck]

I'm glad that the Kahr is working for you. I've retired my LCP as a carry gun, it's probably going to be traded in on another Kimber Micro. I can normally shoot DAO guns fairly well, including snubbies and my Kel-Tecs, but not the LCP. In a defensive situation I can't acquire a clear sight picture and then carefully stage the trigger, this is the only way I can shoot the LCP fairly well. I know it works great for alot of folks and that's good, it just doesn't work for me.

I'm not mad about this post at all! I get it I don't like the sights, I don't like that it feels like a misshapen piece of wood for grips, it just doesn't handle right for me, and I've tried numerous versions.
As for trigger control in a stressful situation, I've come to the realization that this is a "belly gun". Can I shoot it better? Absolutely, under the right conditions and if things are in my favor. Is this the absolute best option, NOT BY A LONG SHOT!!!! I appreciate my Hellcat and my SC XD every time I shoot this thing.
But the fact that I can, and will, carry it all day everyday, even when I've been pretty screwed up recently, says a lot. BUT, the trigger SUCKS! Typical downfall of "mouse guns".
Knowing what I now know, I'd have probably bought a Colt Mustang back in the '90's and been fat, dumb and happy. But that ship has sailed.
Anyway, I have a Remora holster in my cart, with a mag pouch, the Magguts parts are also in my cart. Still looking for decent ammo prices (come on, that was funny!) and some cash inflow.

[450 Fuller]

Interesting observations. Having spent time as both a Federal and state agent, retiring from the former-certain handgun rules apply: it absolutely
must function and be relatively accurate. The Kahr PM 9 works. I also have an original 1967 Walther PPK .380 that refuses to give up. Its a personal decision, as Det PD SGT Evan Marshall pointed out with the .357 in one-shot stops. A .357 SIG or M-19/M-66 4-in---really is reliable, UNLESS the
environment is too target rich. BUG pistols are #2, and a primary like a 9mm HI-Power, 1911 or even a reliable Glock will work. Keep in mind though
that ANY 1911 shorter than the original 5 in version may malfunction. The Browning design was full size for a reason. I carried a 1911 in Vietnam in combat. I own 7 older Colt 1911s ...
We are in a different world now, and the pistol you are carrying is the one you will have in a fight. Jeff Cooper was right. Better an alloy frame reliable full sized 1911. Its an individual choice that you will live with, or...

[sawinredneck]

Interesting observations. Having spent time as both a Federal and state agent, retiring from the former-certain handgun rules apply: it absolutely
must function and be relatively accurate. The Kahr PM 9 works. I also have an original 1967 Walther PPK .380 that refuses to give up. Its a personal decision, as Det PD SGT Evan Marshall pointed out with the .357 in one-shot stops. A .357 SIG or M-19/M-66 4-in---really is reliable, UNLESS the
environment is too target rich. BUG pistols are #2, and a primary like a 9mm HI-Power, 1911 or even a reliable Glock will work. Keep in mind though
that ANY 1911 shorter than the original 5 in version may malfunction. The Browning design was full size for a reason. I carried a 1911 in Vietnam in combat. I own 7 older Colt 1911s ...
We are in a different world now, and the pistol you are carrying is the one you will have in a fight. Jeff Cooper was right. Better an alloy frame reliable full sized 1911. Its an individual choice that you will live with, or...

Again, not going to hate on this.
I LOVE my 1911, but it comes with it's own caveat's. First, the only 1911 I own is an original series Custom shop Delta Elite. As much as I love it, I'm scared to carry it anymore! It's just become too valuable.
I, myself, am also a cartridge snob! After seeing some actual ballistics test, I completely lost faith in the 9mm! I sold my nines and started carrying a Colt Anaconda in 44Magnum.
With age, and bullet technology catching up, I'm not unhappy carrying a 9mm now.
Issue is, broken back, half crippled up, many days I just don't have the want to carry something that heavy. Many days my Hellcat will land just right on my Sciatica while IWB carrying, and WOW, that's a rush!
Tuning, like any 1911 platform, is going to be required, even on a gun that wasn't designed to not be fullsize.
This gun is shootable and functions.

[Bigslug]

Here's the thing with pocket calibers: They are sized on either side of a line.

On the small side of that line, you have the true "pocket guns" that are wonderful to carry. . .and usually generate all sorts of complaints about grips being too small for all your fingers, sights being invisible, sight radius being too short to shoot accurately, and absence of "combat pistol" features like last-round hold-open or "conventional" (i.e., 1911's location) mag releases. This is the Seecamp and its NAA clone all over. Ruger LCP and Smith Bodyguard somewhat less so, but still in this "midget" category. Nothing wrong with these guns, but you have to accept them for what they are, and what they aren't. I call them "nasal inhalers" for a reason.

The big side of that line would include things like the PPK/S, Sig 232, Kahr, Glock 42 . You have to put more thought into how to carry them, but you at least now have something you can probably shoot well. I like the Desantis Super Fly for a pocket holster option for such things. IMO, this, plus the little Glock is a real winner.

[sawinredneck]

Here's the thing with pocket calibers: They are sized on either side of a line.

On the small side of that line, you have the true "pocket guns" that are wonderful to carry. . .and usually generate all sorts of complaints about grips being too small for all your fingers, sights being invisible, sight radius being too short to shoot accurately, and absence of "combat pistol" features like last-round hold-open or "conventional" (i.e., 1911's location) mag releases. This is the Seecamp and its NAA clone all over. Ruger LCP and Smith Bodyguard somewhat less so, but still in this "midget" category. Nothing wrong with these guns, but you have to accept them for what they are, and what they aren't. I call them "nasal inhalers" for a reason.

The big side of that line would include things like the PPK/S, Sig 232, Kahr, Glock 42 . You have to put more thought into how to carry them, but you at least now have something you can probably shoot well. I like the Desantis Super Fly for a pocket holster option for such things. IMO, this, plus the little Glock is a real winner.

And I knew all of this going in, honestly had several gun store employee's do their best to talk me out of this road. Friends told me the Hellcat was the best compromise I should make as well.
I get it.
But, I'm still not disappointed with this choice. I really like the gun, and it's size. I wish it was more powerful, but I'm just now warming back up to the 9mm, so there's that. But .380 has worked for 100 years. I'm getting better with it, better ammo will make me feel better and I'll always have better options available if I feel I need them.
Honestly, with the little traveling around I do do, this thing is just about perfect. Run to the liquor store, Autoparts store or a quick dinner in a small neighboring town, this and a spare mag feel about right.

[sawinredneck]

I'm very invested in this gun now! Remora with a mag pouch (I'll give it a try at least), three spring sets from Magguts (may as well do them all!) 100rds of Underwood Xtreme Defender, and because, I ordered the trigger spring kit and stainless striker guide from Galloway.
The LCPplus holds 10+1, is bigger, and heavier. This will give me 7+1 in a small footprint, I'm ok with that compromise.
I keep forgetting, I'm really glad I didn't go the Seecamp route, I don't think anything would have been enjoyable with that gun in .380! Then the Kahr really isn't that much bigger, but it sure shoots better than I imagine the Seecamp would.
Now I wait and hope the next time I tear into the slide it doesn't take me an hour to find all the parts that shot across my shop.
Thank you all so much for the guidance and insight!

[Uncle Grinch]

This has been a very interesting thread. Lots of opinions and facts, both on handgun and holster. Like most I’ve gone to smaller and lighter, from Colt Officer, to Sig P320SC, to Sig P365, and many others over my 75 years . The Criteria was weight vs. power. Going from 45 ACP to 9mm, to 380 was a real mental challenge for me. Since I’ve always been a 1911 guy, I ended up working my way back to the 9mm in an Sig P938, which I carry in a DeSantis Scorpion holster. It works for me, but may not work for everyone. We are all different and have different needs and different expectations.

[dverna]

This has been a very interesting thread. Lots of opinions and facts, both on handgun and holster. Like most I’ve gone to smaller and lighter, from Colt Officer, to Sig P320SC, to Sig P365, and many others over my 75 years . The Criteria was weight vs. power. Going from 45 ACP to 9mm, to 380 was a real mental challenge for me. Since I’ve always been a 1911 guy, I ended up working my way back to the 9mm in an Sig P938, which I carry in a DeSantis Scorpion holster. It works for me, but may not work for everyone. We are all different and have different needs and different expectations.

You nailed it.

I only have one 1911 .45 left, and I never carry it. 9mm may be sneered at but it is better than nothing. The new line of SD bullets make the 9mm "decent" IMO.

I pocket carried a couple of guns for a while, but it does not work for me. Too slow and I carry too much other crap in my pockets. A tuckable holster is what works for me.

[charlie b]

I was comfortable carrying a 380 or 9mmMAK for quite a few years. Modern ammo made the choice easier.